The Emergence of Ballroom's New Generation of Filmmakers | "Make Some Room" (Trey Sherman)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K8CfZyFt4I

Description

Brandon Nick sits down with first-time filmmaker Trey Sherman to chat about how his film 'Make Some Room' made some room, both in Ballroom and as a filmmaker. Trey relives the trauma of losing his hard drive (in the most chaotic way, mind you) as they discuss that moment’s beautiful aftermath, including winning an award! Trey opens up about the responsibilities of documenting a culture you love while still earning your place in it, and the responsibility of keeping Ballroom’s magic and sacredness intact even as the film finds a wider audience. And of course, a 60-second Horror pitch so bizarre, you can’t even name it.

About

Trey Sherman is a skilled producer with nearly 10 years of experience making television. He is currently directing a short documentary about the revival of a house in the Kiki ballroom scene.

Previous credits include BET's America in Black, The Problem with Jon Stewart (AppleTV+), NBC's Meet the Press, and various shows at CBS News.

Trey also co-hosts Just Press Play with Ell & Trey, a talk show celebrating all things Black, queer and weird through play and storytelling.

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Transcript:

Brandon Nick: I mean, it still would've been lovely, but there was just something about like, because what? Because what? 

Oh, because you thought you ate my pose but, guess what? I'm here too. 

What's good, everyone? This is Film Festival Friends podcast, and I am your host, Brandon Nick. What happens when the storyteller creates his first short film at the intersection of community and passion?

Let's find out in this insightful conversation with Trey Sherman where we kiki about how his short documentary film makes some room, made some room for him. And the conversation starts now. 

I, am here with my film festival friend, Trey Sherman. Who I will actually let you tell me about your film. So I, want to do it in like a bit of a fun way.

I love game shows. I like so much of what I watch in my spare time is game shows. One of my favorite game shows is 25 Words or Less, hosted by Meredith Viera. So in 25 words or less, describe your film, Make Some Room. 

Trey Sherman: Okay. 

Brandon Nick: I'm counting. 

Trey Sherman: Oh, already. Okay. Oh you're counting the words. Comprehension this morning is already, okay. So in 25 words or less, my film Make Some Room is about what happens when a house who left due to drama. Let's start over. 

Make some Room is a film about, the departure return and revival of a legendary house in the kiki scene of ballroom. 

Brandon Nick: Okay, work and you have five words to spare. I love that. 

Trey Sherman: Okay. See, I knew I wasn't gonna be able to come up with a sentence and count, so I was like, let's just make sure we're coming in under to be safe, honey. 

Brandon Nick: Thank you for that. What is the origin story of your film? 

Trey Sherman: Yeah, it's funny. I'm at a moment in my life where I just got laid off from my job and I was in a similar position when I decided to make the film. It was a time in my life where I had worked at The Problem with John Stewart for nearly three years, and once I had this free time, having, no longer having a job to be at every day. I have been obsessed with Ballroom since I was in college watching YouTube videos back in the day.

And OTA is a mini ball that happens every Monday at $3 bill. I went to OTA and worked up the courage to walk beginner's performance, made it to the last battle, and the leader, the current leader of the house at the time, Prince Marciano, Prince Balenciaga, saw me there and asked me to come to a practice. And having, access to the practices and just being around the people and being immersed in ballroom because like I said, I didn't have a job. I was at the practices, I was at all the balls. It just felt like something that I should, not should, but it just felt like it became something I wanted to document.

So I would say that it, the, conception, the, conception of it came largely just from an internal source of inspiration, that sort of drove it from the start to the finish line. 

Brandon Nick: So if I'm hearing this correctly. This, is the timeline of you, physically being a part of Ballroom and making the doc, that was happened around the same time? It's like you got into the house and it was like, oh, well let me actually document this experience while I'm here. So like you were making, you made this doc as like one, and I guess in some ways it's like a new community member and ballroom and a new member of the House of Marciano, correct?

Trey Sherman: Correct. And yeah, I didn't want to come in and just make the film. I would say maybe it took a couple months for me to feel comfortable filming. And to feel as though the people I was filming would be comfortable with me doing so. Because

Brandon Nick: What was that conversation like with them? 

Trey Sherman: I think really it was a conversation with the leaders, primarily Prince.

And the truth of the matter is Prince really approached me about making some sort of film because he, you know, as we got to know each other, I told him my background in production, things like that. But the more we got to talking. I told him my vision. He told me his, and we just kind of tried to meet in the middle as best we can or as best we could.

I'm curious about what would've happened if I were to make that film now. Or if I, you know, if I had known the people well enough or better to where I felt extremely comfortable just filming at any given time. Because there were moments where I felt kind of like awkward. It's awkward sometimes putting a camera in the face of a person you don't know and just ask, be like, be yourself.

And it's like... 

Brandon Nick: Right. No. Yes, 

Trey Sherman: Girl. 

Brandon Nick: Especially when we are in like, when, you know, we actually have some level of reverence for the space and when the space is like, you know, has some, element of like, sacredness or just like, you know, specialty. What does that balance look like for you? In terms of like, when do I, when do I press record and let this camera eat up what is happening versus when do I just exist in a space?

And I'm asking this also as somebody who is like, I know this is a loaded question, but you are a filmmaker, but you are also in some ways a subject because you're also a member of this house. 

Trey Sherman: Yeah, I think. The way I try to approach life in general is to have an intention and then make sure that what you're doing feeds or serves the intention or like a sub goal of the intention.

Brandon Nick: Yeah.

Trey Sherman: And so I think in my mind, maybe even subconsciously, there's that. Sort of idea, just lingering. And it's like, is this moment helping me tell that story? And I think sometimes, it's hard to know. Like the answer is not clear. But knowing that it's like there has to be some sort of guide.

Otherwise it's just like, "I feel like this. I feel like this, oh, in this moment." And that could be so arbitrary. So I just try to have. Intention and make sure that my actions match it. 

Brandon Nick: How did you fund the film? Was there funding for the film? What did that look like? 

Trey Sherman: Yeah, I am such a novice. Well, I don't wanna say novice. All of this was very new to me, is what I will say. And we may have had a conversation about this prior, but I don't know even, let's say I had $5,000 for this film, which I did not. I didn't. There was no budget. No budget. They say shoestring. Honey, I had shoestrings in my shoes, but, there was no budget.

Brandon Nick: Tea.

Trey Sherman: So, 

Brandon Nick: I mean, and, that is, very real. You know, sometimes we are making, I mean, I'm often making something with little to nothing.

Trey Sherman: Yeah.

Brandon Nick: I mean if the answer, I mean, I'll let you finish, but if the answer is like, there's no budget, then that is also very real and honest. 

Trey Sherman: Yeah, no, there was no budget. And, I was gonna say, the only thing I was gonna add is that I don't know what the standard is for, let's say if I have $5,000. What is that going to? 'Cause it's not gonna go to me. 

Is that gonna go to paying for an editor? Is that gonna go to potentially paying subjects? Is it going to paying, I in this instance, there was one part of the film where I enlisted help filming it. Which is at the ball itself, where I was also walking the ball. So I knew that I was gonna need help just getting footage of it. So I know I would've liked to have paid those people. I paid for transportation and food, but you know, that was coming outta my own pocket, so. 

Brandon Nick: But like for like Miss Honey, I think that budget might have been maybe $3,500. and because you were, talking about like where, does 5,000 go in a dock? And I think my 35 went to, paying my producer who was also my DP who had also borrowed equipment from his friend. So it was like some of that money was in some ways to like pay him for his time and services, but also to pay for the gear. Because, you know, they had access to like a Sony something, a Sony cinema camera.

And then it went to paying, the makeup artist. 'Cause there was a, it didn't make it in the short, but for the feature there was a Miss Honey, the video reenactment. So we had a makeup artist. I hired, you know, some friends to be like, to be the backup dancers. somebody went to like money, went to like props, some of that shit definitely got returned. yeah, went to crafty.

I guess I say that to say the, joy, and I think you'll discover this as you continue to make, and hopefully this doesn't sound like too preachy or whatever. I think there's a joy in the ability to make something with nothing. And then to make something with something. I mean, and there's also, a greater joy making something with something.

But I think, especially for like Black queer creatives who are oftentimes under-resourced, our skill and our like, creative aptitude to like figure out how do we turn thin air into, you know, an award-winning documentary, right? Is a very special skill.

Yeah. So like to that, this is again another pivot. How does it feel to, as a first time filmmaker to, be in a festival and to have won at that festival? Because like I imagine, you know, that is not something that we have the luxury of experiencing too often.

It's just like, you know, straight out the gate, you, we are already collecting accolades. Essentially, I guess I'm asking like, talk to me about your Queer Voices experience. Because that is also, I guess contextually, I mean, we knew each other outside of the festival circus, so we are also friends outside of the film festival.

Both of us were screened at Queer Voices. my short Miss Honey and my other short home were in Queer Voices 2025 with Make Some Room. So like, talk to me about your Queer Voices experience. 

Trey Sherman: Yes. Also shout-out to you. 

Brandon Nick: Mister award winning Filmmaker . 

Trey Sherman: Yes, for Miss Honey, I still need to see home. I was looking forward to seeing, I wasn't able to go to that screening.

But yeah, it was very validating. I mean, it's a cliche to say that. But to make something that you feel so good about, there's always, or for me, there's anxiety about how it will be received. I, tend not to put things out that I don't at least feel good about, but I felt really strongly about this and so first of all, there's the submitting it.

I didn't necessarily know that it was gonna be accepted. I didn't, of course know that it was gonna win. I wasn't expecting that, but all I knew was that I felt really proud of what I had created.

And so specifically I think to have a film festival dedicated to queer people of color, should I say, it felt even more fulfilling that my, my peers, my peers fuck with my shit. Like my peers, like what I made, you know?

Brandon Nick: Yeah.

Trey Sherman: And it just, made me happy, you know, the, red carpet and all that was fun. I mean, it was great, meeting other people who are doing similar things. But I think I, there's, an entertainer in me and, It felt like an extension of myself being an entertainer to see the film on the screen and to just hear people applauding and cheering and like oohing and, like see them, you know, getting choked up when I got choked up. Like just experiencing, it, kind of felt like, oh, we have a shared experience here. And this showing of the film is part of that.

I did not expect to win. But I also felt really proud of what I had created. And like I, my experience had prepared me for it. 

Brandon Nick: That's beautiful. Especially considering what you shared and the, the talk back that we had for the block that we were both in. Where it's like you actually had to re-edit the whole thing. can you, can you, for the viewers, can you talk to us about like that experience? Because, I mean, because it's like, yes, it is great that you made this film, you have this experience, this is your first film, but you also had to remake it after already getting submitted. So can you talk to us about like that little snafu?

Trey Sherman: Yes, let's relive the trauma. Yes, I, it's the worst. Some of the worst moments I think in life are when bad things happen, and it is nobody's fault but your own. Like, there's no one else to blame. You can't be mad at anybody but yourself. And when you mess up, oh, you so desperately wanna fix it.

And so, yeah, there I, was sitting at this desk putting my hard drive and my laptop in my bags. Because I had work stuff, I had gym stuff, I had stuff. 'Cause I was taking my laptop and my hard drives to work so that I could work on it during my lunch break, which was something that I would often do. And, everything's on such a tight schedule when you're trying to do so many different things at once.

A job, a podcast, a film, right? And so I'm squeezing every little bit of the day out of the day to where I'm right on time for the train. I'm right on time to take the bike from the train to the bike stop at my job to where I get off the bike with my book bag, but I leave the tote bag with the hard drive in the basket. And I don't even realize that I did that until 30 minutes later after I had gone into my morning meeting and I came back down. And, I knew.

You know the crazy thing too, I had done this before. I have ridden a bike to that station and left my bag in the basket.

The, when I went back out, the things were gone. The bike was gone. I was frantic and I think deep down, I knew I wasn't getting it back, but I have to in life, whether it's a relationship or a job or I'm not really good at just cutting stuff off. I have to cross every t dot every i, went into every establishment at that corner. I followed the bike to the station where it ended up, I went to that station. I checked every establishment.

Brandon Nick: Wow.

Trey Sherman: At that corner, I told you I walked into a police precinct and I was like in the police precinct being questioned by the police. I was like, "you have strayed so far from your purpose." Like this is not where you're supposed to be right now.

Brandon Nick: Friend, No.

Trey Sherman: And I just had to accept that it was gone. And I had to finish that day of work not knowing if it was backed up or not, and thankfully, I know the anxiety of that. And, mind you, this was, the day after I found out that I was accepted to Queer Voices.

Brandon Nick: Wow. 

Trey Sherman: Because it, honestly, I submitted a work in progress, thanks to your encouragement. Honestly, it wouldn't have, happened without you. And it had been just sitting because I felt stuck. I had gotten to a place where I was stuck, and so it wasn't done, but I knew that the version that I submitted was not what I would've wanted to put out into the world.

And so there were parts of it that I knew were gonna stay intact. But yeah, it was backed up and I ended up having to re-edit the entire thing. And that's, like I said at the festival, literal sweat and tears. You know, some nights being in, in this exact seat up until 5, 6, 7 in the morning just trying to get it done.

But it was worth it. 

Brandon Nick: This is crazy, but I feel like that might actually be somewhat common. Maybe not the losing of the hard drive via a Citi bike, but like, you know, a hard losing a project file because of insert reason here. And needing to, you know, re-edit, like I think. The benefit of that is that you've already done the work on one hand, so it's like I know the clips and the soundbites that I'm looking for. But I wonder in that for you as you re-edited, maybe this is just my experience and I don't know if that is like for you, but when I've had to re-edit, it's like, okay, I do remember so and so said this, and then I cut it, and then I cut to this, and then I did this, and like, you know, I can splice, I remember more or less what was there. But you know, some things also change as a result of, you know, being able to re-edit, a thing.

So like, I wonder for you it, was there anything between the version that you submitted, the work in progress that you submitted and the short that you had to remake? Or even if it was just like, you know, approaching the second edit, differently than the first, just like talk to me about like how, the project changed from the version that you submitted and lost to the version that you revived from the ashes. 

Trey Sherman: So the version I submitted. The, beginning of it was entirely different. It, did not include any of that arch- I mean, at this point, I can't fully remember, but there are things in the final edit. There are things in the final edit that were not in the, initial edit. But I would say nothing really got cut.

I mean, the beginning is very different. The ending is very different. And then there are some little things in between, that, the bulk of it, because I had the file that I had submitted that I could just try and replicate. But I found that, I know that when I was editing, there were some very nuanced, Things that I had done to sort of tie things together that I was having a hard time replicating this music is hitting this beat at this moment and this. It just, I realized, I remember sitting here. Trying to get the exact frame to match the exact frame where I made this cut. And it just, if I had gone through that process, I was like, Trey, there's no reason for you to be so married to this prior version of this thing.

It's just going to have to be different. And, you know, even the things that I tried to replicate, I found myself in the second edit being like, well, actually I think this works a little better here for this reason. And it just became sort of a new process in and of itself.

And so I had, I don't know if I should turn this camera over here. Let's, go for it, but there's some sticky notes up there. 

Brandon Nick: Yes Process. I love that.

Trey Sherman: That wall was used to be filled with sticky notes. 'Cause I had, it just, I realized I need a visual representation of what I,

Brandon Nick: You betta get that frame right. 

Trey Sherman: Like a, yes. A physical, representation of what, of the order that I'm doing things, not just on a timeline, not just in notes, but like a real physical thing that I could like pull these things down and reorder them. And it just made sense, like, just go chronologically because I kept, I just kept getting confused about like how to do it, why this is here. and so I just decided like, let's just go in chronological order. And, similarly, so, so that's how we started, we just start with the past, like, boom, you have this feminine presence walking down the stairs. This is how you're meeting the House of Marciano. I felt like that was a good tribute to Ballroom and like the female figures who sort of were the trailblazers of like creating the scene.

And similarly, the my favorite scene where we have this slowmo of the practice before the ball that looked different. I was in love with it in the first edit, but even editing it a second time, I was like, I had ideas for how to change it. I was gonna add more voiceovers from the people who you were seeing. But when I put them in there. It somehow took away from the moment, and I don't fully know why. Like there was something I think more powerful about just seeing it without people explaining to you. Like, you know, there was one line from Badu, she said something to the effect of, I feel like the more I unlock in my vogue, the more free I feel in the world.

And it's so powerful. But I, like, I couldn't find a place for it because. It just, and so since I'm the one making the film my, I'm not the same person I was six months ago when I edited this. And so it's almost like you as a person, where you are in life when you're working on something, influences the process and the product, so. I feel like I've been talking for so long, but 

Brandon Nick: No, but that, but it was, I mean, what was great about that was, sorry, I'll let you finish your thought. 

Trey Sherman: That's essentially it. I think to wrap it up, everything was different. As much as I wanted to even make, even the parts that I wanted to completely replicate. My intentions behind the nuance of the edits made an entirely different thing that, in my opinion, still turned out great, even if it wasn't the same. 

Brandon Nick: Yeah. No, that's, that is beautiful. I don't know why that the last, thing that you were talking about just gave me the, the vision of like metamorphosis and caterpillars becoming butterflies.

I did want to bring up, the slow motion scene. 'Cause like, I think I remember us sitting in that auditorium, or like in that, in the, room for Queer Voices and like that moment was so beautiful. 'Cause like I, and I think for me personally, it is like, I also understand, I think for the folks who have some, like, you know, understanding of ballroom, it is often associated with like, you know, relatively like hard music, like hard hitting like, you know, dance or like house music. But to see, folks moving, and, to, see Black queer and trans folks move their bodies in ways that are typically just like very hard and very, or like, not very hard, but like very fast, and very high energy to see it like slowed down on top of this, like very melodic music puts voguing and ballroom into like a different con put it into a different context for me. And I thought that was like very beautiful to see.

And I, guess I'll also say that the quote that you said about like the more about what Badu said about like the more I get into my body with like voguing or something to express, I feel like it might have been good to hear, but I think we actually see that in this montage of folks moving in slow motion.

And like I particularly love like the slow motion segment in itself is very beautiful. Right. But I particularly love the moment when, I believe it's Prince, the house father and the other butch queen, they're doing runway. And miss thing is like, oh yeah. And that little moment with the hand in the face, I was like, yes.

That moment in slow motion is so beautiful. Just like to, I mean, there's a poetry, I think you made poetry out of like, a ballroom experience, you know. The actual, the practice, the walking, the performance, the being judged, even like in front of a panel. Granted this is all like framed in the dock as like a, as practice, but like, just being able to see that moment in slow mode really did something, to the kid in me who like had found himself in ballroom.

So like I, and granted all that to say like, I love, the version that you, ended up with in the second pass. I imagine that the first version of it was also strong, but like I, it was beautiful. And I'm, and I, am glad, that like spirit led you to articulate that segment in the ways that you did. 

Trey Sherman: This. This. Was not in the first version. It was like something, I found, and when I saw it, I was like, now wait a minute, 

Brandon Nick: Bitch, I'm screaming because had we not seen that moment, I mean it still would've been lovely, but there was just something about like, because what? Because what? Oh, because you thought you ate my pose, but, guess what? I'm here too. 

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Oh, okay. No, this is a, cute question. maybe we'll see. But in what ways did Make Some Room for you? 

Trey Sherman: Ooh!

I just have a feeling that Make Some Room, made some room for me to grow as a producer and a filmmaker. Because like I said, it was a very validating experience and I think I was having a conversation with my roommate about this recently, how confidence and talent sort of feed each other. It takes an opportunity to have or to showcase your talent, to build confidence, to then get opportunities to showcase your talents and build confidence. And it just kind of builds, you know what I mean?

Brandon Nick: Yeah. That's so interesting. Yes. 

Trey Sherman: Because I think for. A, good percentage of my life. I spent a lot of time doubting myself and my abilities because people in the world made me feel, I allowed people's perceptions or opinions about queerness or blackness to taint my perception of myself. And I think when you live in a wor, living in a world where I felt like people were against who I am, innately made it hard for me to feel confident about not only myself, but my abilities.

And it took more than just, you know, mom and dad telling me that I am great, or I'm smart, or I'm talented. I needed, and it's weird to say because a lot of people talk about like not doing things for validation, but I wrestle with this too because I do feel like you need some form of validation to, or I, have needed some form of validation to believe in myself.

Brandon Nick: yeah.

Trey Sherman: And so I will say that just being embraced by others for something that I feel came from my heart and that I was proud of, gave me more assurance that the things that I create don't have to just be great for me. So I think it just made room for me to continue to follow my creativity and put out what I think is good. Using, you know, my experience, my life, my identity, combined with my skills and yeah, the confidence to keep going. 

Brandon Nick: I love that. I love that. That was a beautiful answer. As someone who also exists at the intersection of ballroom and filmmaking, can you speak to me about your relationship in that? 

Trey Sherman: Yeah. I think being at the intersection of ballroom and filmmaking for me has felt like a tough line to sort of walk. Because I've been in ballroom for a grand total of one year at this point. And yeah, in, in, in some ways, I still feel like an outsider. In the scene, I know that a lot of people still don't know who I am. I haven't truly made a name for myself, in the Kiki scene or in Mainstream, but some, you know, some people know my face. I've been out there.

And so I do recognize that, one of the things I really love about Ballroom, especially in the context of me now being laid off from this giant corporation that has really only ever catered to diversity in a sort of obligatory way, I feel. I guess what I'm saying is like, I'm a person of color. I'm a Black queer man, and one thing I love about Ballroom is this idea of the origin of pageantry. Excluding or not treating fairly, you know, trans women, Black women who were competing. And they made their own, which is a conversation I see a lot of people having in journalism right now.

As you know, NBC got rid of its verticals that cater to diversity. I mean, across the country we're seeing companies disband their commitments that they made in 2020 to amplifying or creating equity for diverse cultures and backgrounds and voices and thoughts. And so I look at Ballroom as this place where for decades, Black queer people have had their own version of something that has, for the most part, even though it's pretty prolific on social media, has be been self-contained.

Like this is our Hollywood. You know what I mean?

Brandon Nick: Yeah.

Trey Sherman: Like, I'm gonna show up to the ball in, you know, dressed fashion forward. I'm gonna have a fab effect for my performance. I'm here to get my cash. I'm here to get my trophy. I'm here to represent my house. Like, it's just what else? It's really unmatched to me. In terms of something that black people have created and kept sacred. And so I do recognize, but it's something that, that so many people are trying to figure out, how do we build our own, how do we build our own? And I kind of feel like, look no further. And

Brandon Nick: Yeah, the ballroom is a good blueprint.

Trey Sherman: It really is. And I feel like. There's so much beauty in it, and that's, part of what I wanted to convey through this film. But I also recognize that there are some downsides to publicizing this thing that has, I think, also made a lot of effort to remain contained, right? Like there are certain groups that you have to be in on social media or whatever to even know where the balls are happening. The houses are invite only for the most part. Like anybody can't just pull up to a practice, anybody's not gonna just like know about a ball.

So the exclusivity of it in maintaining the culture, the, sacredness, putting that in a film, there were, you know, my initial conception of the film, was that this is gonna be for ballroom. 

Brandon Nick: Yeah. 

Trey Sherman: But then once it became this bigger thing, like, oh, it's gonna be in a festival, I had to really think about like, okay, who is the audience? And you talked about like I had to explain certain things, you know, and that's part of it. Informed the decisions about like, okay, how do I keep this as simple as possible?

Let's do it chronologically. How do I make it clear what's happening at this ball? let me tell people who don't understand, like, this is the first battle. Like I did, I started doing a lot more explaining.

And, truthfully, there's a part of me that feels bad that there was a paywall for the film about people, about a people who, for many of whom won't see it because they weren't at the festival. Like even people in my own house haven't seen it. And I'm trying to figure out a way to, to make that happen. So yeah, I guess to answer your question about being at the intersection of filmmaking and Ballroom: I feel like there is some responsibility to maintain the integrity of what Ballroom is while also, you know, doing my best to showcase the best parts of it.

Brandon Nick: Yeah. No, that is so real and so very true. 'cause it makes me think, as like filmmakers, art makers, cultural curators, who exist in ballroom, we all have some responsibility to treat, to treat it with the care and reverence that we know it has. And I'm speaking about like me and you, but I'm also speaking about like the Rashaad's, the, like the Twiggy's and all the other, like the other folks who have made, Ballroom content. Like, you know, the Dashaun's like, you know, the Legendaries and all of these things. Like there is a, responsibility that we have as people in this culture and of this culture. To treat it with, care and reverence while also balancing that level of, maintaining who it is for and making sure that those folks feel, seen and reflected and not, perverted or like, you know, proliferated against, while also making sure, and, especially in the context of like festival circuits and like TV and all these things that like it also has some level of mass appeal.

And I think that is, always a very interesting balance, especially when you are talking about like, you know, cultural specificity. And I'm saying this as somebody who like, and you know, in my artistic statements I'm like, you know, I put Ballroom into everything I do. But, how do I essentially, how do I hold all of that in my two hands?

But I actually think what you said was very beautiful and I think that was a great answer. And I also just want to uplift and I think this is. As I tend to do, this is me speaking in drafts, but I, so I think there is a question at the end of this thought. But at the top of your answer, you were saying that, you know, you've been in ballroom for all of a grand total of one year, and that in some ways you are still making a name for yourself.

You are still, you know, very much making room for yourself. and then as you were saying that, I, my mind went to, and in some ways you are doing the same thing as a filmmaker. Like yes, you have your own experience. Working in production and, you know, telling these stories for these institutions and corporations.

But as Trey Sherman, you are very much now also making some room, of your own, both in ball. You are, arriving there with me! I love that you are making your, making some room and making a name for yourself. Both in Ballroom and as a filmmaker. I think I just wanted to hold space for the beauty of that. And how that both, and how both of these things are being fed to birthed from this seed of an idea that was this short film around your house.

And so I actually don't, I realize that there wasn't a question in that. I'll say this and then I'll shut up, but like, I, think I just wanted to, give that to you because I think there is really something beautiful about, and it's, and I'm saying this not even to, but I think just like knowing, going from the conversation we had outside of, whatever that club was,

Trey Sherman: Le Bain

Brandon Nick: From, yeah, le Bain. From, you know, as we're waiting to get into the Assembly after party 

from stand Assembly at NewFest to like, and just think about that conversation, where we talked about the family. We just like, you know, I've been working on this and I don't really know. Like, I don't necessarily have like an end game, but this is something that I've been working on to the like, hey, you should submit to this festival, to getting into the festival, to losing the drive and having to remake it to getting in the festival and screening it and having one, you know, won Best Documentary Short. Like there's something really beautiful and I guess the, stepping stones that have happened, for you at this intersection of ballroom and filmmaking.

And I guess if nothing else, I'll end with. I think that is a beautiful journey that I am very excited to see how that continues to grow. Since I'll be quiet 'cause I know that was probably a lot to give to you, so I'll hold space for any thought that you have and then I'll go onto the, I'll wrap us out.

Trey Sherman: Yeah, no, I just wanted to say thank you for, see this is what I love about conversation. Is like you connect, like I said, all of that and had not made that connection in my own life. Like, wow. So I just want to thank you for that and thank you for helping me make connection.

Brandon Nick: This is the emergence of Trey.

Trey Sherman: Yes, exactly. And yeah, just thank you for, having me on and for highlighting that and, you know, the work that I've done and just giving me a space to just talk freely about the art And, I'm excited too. Like it's, I feel like, yeah, I'm at a new chapter and it's scary. I told you, you know, I'm bringing a lot of emotion from where I'm at in my life right now to this conversation. So that, was almost, it was like, an epiphany.

I'm sitting here with this, notebook I have, and I've been trying to every day like write one small page, of just like something. And then like a, you know, a broader message on the next page. So 

Brandon Nick: I love that.

Trey Sherman: I feel like this is gonna be, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Swirling around in my mind. So yeah, just thank you for, I love for the opportunity. 

Brandon Nick: Yeah. No, I mean, for me this is just like, you know, a practice of all, of this is a practice of community for me.

So thank you for, you know, just being a part of it. So I have one final question and then I'll get us into the activity. It's fill in the blank. Black queer film is ?

Trey Sherman: Beautiful. 

Brandon Nick: Okay, great. I love that. So now I want you to close your eyes. and this is a more, this is a bit of a sensory question.

You said beautiful Black queer film is beautiful. So what does that word look like? Smell like? Taste, like? Feel like? Sound like? It doesn't need to be all of those things. But as you are using your muscle of imagination, and we're talking about black queer film being beautiful, what does that look like for you?

What scene do you see? What thing do you smell? What are you tasting? What are you hearing? What are you feeling? What's happening in your mind when you think about black queer is film it's beautiful. 

Trey Sherman: I am seeing a few different visuals. Specifically right now I'm seeing animation, colorful animation because black queer film is not limited to one particular thing. I mean, it, it includes black filmmakers who make animation

Moonlight comes to mind just as a, very. One of the first frames of reference where it's like, I'm able to see this on a, on, a big screen with my mother and my sister in a theater, a story about people who are like me.

It, it, sounds like laughter to me because Black queer people are a key and it is always gonna be that. Yeah, I see community in it. That's my, I think Queer Voices made that association for me that Black queer film is always gonna have community. I experienced that in my own creative process. People coming along with me just because they believe in 

me, they believe in the project.

And that's what I got. 

Brandon Nick: No, I love that. That was beautiful. 

Trey Sherman: Child, you love a, challenging game. Shit! 

Brandon Nick: I do enjoy, the art of making a bitch think 

Trey Sherman: I'm here for it though. I love a challenge. 

Brandon Nick: I mean that, and that's why I started, and that's why I started with that sensory question.

It's time for a 62nd pitch. A creative sprint designed to exercise your imagination.

Here's how it works. We've got four spin wheels with lead and supporting actors, movie genres and plot devices. I'm going to spin the wheels and whatever fate hands us, that's your movie. You'll get 30 seconds to ideate then 60 seconds to pitch your film idea out loud. Let's go.

So I'm gonna spend the first wheel.

Trey Sherman: I'm so curious when my brain is gonna conjure up. 

Brandon Nick: I'm, so, you have to make a horror about a grandmother's bra starring Leonardo DiCaprio and supporting Lead Actor Rick Ross.

Pitch starts now! 

Trey Sherman: Okay, so I don't have a title yet. But in this film, Leonardo DiCaprio must break a generational curse that is haunting him and his family by, retrieving his grandmother's bra from his abusive stepfather, Rick Ross.

And in the film, Leo will be haunted by the trauma that Rick Ross, enacted on him when he was a child. Leo was never breastfed, and so the, bra is specifically triggering for Leo as he faces Rick Ross, on his journey to retrieve

Brandon Nick: and we're at time. 

Trey Sherman: And break the curse. 

Brandon Nick: We actually might have been overtime, but.

I'm screaming. No, but it's, for me that was a ki. It's Leonardo DiCaprio being older than Rick Ross in real life.

Thank you, for bearing with me. Thank you for being my, my guinea pig. Even if this isn't the first episode, I'm naming that this is the first recording that we did. So thank you for joining me on Film Festival Friends with Brandon Nicks. I am deeply excited, for all that you have in store.

I can't wait for what continues to happen with Make Some Room .And I can't see, and I can't wait to see how you continue to make some room, both in the fields of ballroom and filmmaking. 

Trey Sherman: Thank you for having me and. Yeah, congratulations on the podcast. Congratulations on your film. Excited to see what else you are gonna bring to the world, so thank you.

Thank you, friend.