I'm a Struggling Filmmaker. But Also Lit. Both Things Can Be True. | Nyala Moon
- Apr 29
- 42 min read
Updated: May 6
DESCRIPTION
In this episode of Film Festival Friends, Brandon Nick sits down with writer-director-actress and all-around creative force Nyala Moon for a wide-ranging conversation about her journey as an artist. Unlike most episodes, this one isn't about a single project — it's about the full picture: how Nyala developed her signature style at the intersection of comedy and education, why she refuses to separate her identity as a Black trans woman from her filmmaking, and what it actually feels like to be a festival darling while still calling yourself a struggling filmmaker. Both things can be true.
They get into the making of her breakout shorts How Not to Date While Trans and Dilating for Maximum Results, the pressure of following up a beloved project, and the very real emotional experience of hiding in the back of your own screening. Nyala also opens up about taking the leap into her first feature film — a comedy mockumentary made on a $12K budget — and why she decided it was time to poop or get off the pot.
Then, Nyala pitches an animated spy caper starring Vivica A. Fox and Scarlett Johansson are fighting over a Telfar bag full of money in her 60-Second Pitch — because Vivica needs her lick back and nobody is doing anything about it.
ABOUT NYALA MOON
NYALA MOON is a graduate of City College with an MFA in film production. Nyala was also a 2020-2021 QueerArt Film fellow, a TV writing fellow for Hillman Grad, and a Film Fatales director fellow. Nyala’s latest film, “How Not To Date While Trans,” has won audience and best short film awards at Inside Out Toronto’s LGBT Film Festival, Wicked Queer Boston’s LGBT Film Festival, Translation Seattle’s 2SLGBTQ+ Film Festival, and NewFest 22. In June 2022, Nyala was selected as a 2022 NewFest/Netflix New Voices Filmmaker Grant winner. Her film, "How Not To Date While Trans," was selected for distribution through Frameline's New Voices program. Her latest short film, Dilating For Maximum Results, won the Grand Jury Prize for Outstanding US short at OutFest and Newfest. Filmmaker Magazine named Nyala one of the 25 New Faces of Independent Film 2023. Nyala was selected to be a part of the Whitney Museum Biennial 2024.
ABOUT AND THEN THERE WAS HER
In a heartwarming Friendsgiving dinner, two women from different worlds, one masculine and one transgender, find love and acceptance amidst the holiday chaos. Sometimes, the most beautiful connections happen when we least expect them.
ABOUT HOW NOT TO DATE WHILE TRANS
How Not to Date While Trans is a break-the-fourth-wall, dark comedy that follows the dating life of a black trans woman and the problematic men she meets along the way. Andie searches for romance and self-love but ends with heartbreak.
ABOUT DILATING FOR MAXIMUM RESULTS
For trans woman Dreya, it’s been four years since both her last relationship and her bottom surgery. So, she decides to finally invite her online boyfriend over to hook up in person. But before he arrives, Dreya must dilate for the first time since her surgery.
Film Festival Friends is a podcast about queer cinema, craft, and culture. Hosted by Brandon Nick. Full show notes and transcript available on our website: www.brandonnick.com/filmfestivalfriends
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TRANSCRIPT
Nyala Moon: Like, I remember one of my cousins, she was just like, oh, Nyala, you lit? And I was just like, am I lit?
Brandon Nick: Who me?
Nyala Moon: I was like, wait a minute, no, I'm a struggling filmmaker. And she's like, no girl, you're lit. And I was just like, oh, I guess I am kind of, but not really. 'cause you know,
Brandon Nick: Both things can be true.
Nyala Moon: Both things can can be true.
Brandon Nick: What's up everyone? Thank you for tuning into another episode of Film Festival Friends. I'm your host, Brandon. And if you are filmmaker interested in indie production or festivals, then this is the show for you. So make sure that you subscribe to our YouTube channels and follow us on social media so you don't miss out on any of these wonderful conversations.
Today I'm joined by my real life friend and one of my personal possibility models in film Nyala Moon. This episode is a little different. Instead of zeroing in on one project, we're doing a broad, beautiful, deep dive into Nyala as an artist, her process, and the journey that brought her here. Trust me. You gonna want pull up a chair for this one.
The conversation starts now.
Thank you for joining me. I am here today with my wonderful, amazing real life friend and my film festival friend, Nyala Moon. How are you feeling on today?
Nyala Moon: I'm feeling good. I'm excited to Kiki .
Brandon Nick: Me and Nyala met some years ago at, we were in the same fellowship through GLAAD, we were a part of GLAAD inaugural filmmakers cohort for EMEI.
We hit it off and since then, you know, Nyala has been one of my filmmaking heroes. I've always been like, I want to be like you when I grow up. 'Cause you, you were doing the things girl. Like you, like I literally remember the first or second trip we were in LA as a cohort and we were hitting, I think we were hitting back to the hotel or were we heading to the airport and it was given, you got a call, it was like, Hey, are you still in town? Because, we just wanna let you know that you know, you won another jury award.
You remember that moment? We were... for Outfest and this given. Wow. I'm really sitting next to, I'm really sitting next to that girl.
So yes, we,
Nyala Moon: That was a cute moment. Thank you for reminding me of that.
Brandon Nick: It was a cute moment. It was a cute moment. No, I remember because it's, and like, I, know I still, we'll talk about it later, but because we're on it, what I appreciated about the, that fellowship for me was that it got me in community with a lot of other filmmakers who are all at various different levels.
Like you inspire me, like the way you make films, and just like the ways in which like community celebrates you and like the festival circuit. And like, you know, you exist in this like indie Queer and trans, like filmmaker zeitgeist.
And I was just like, yeah, like I want to be like, I want to be like Nyala when, you know, as I, come up in the game. And like EMEI just really gave me an opportunity to experience like what was possible for me as a filmmaker, and just like holding space with all of y'all was great. So shout out to DaShawn and em for that.
Your most recent film credit And Then There Was Her, which was done in collaboration with another EMEI alum, Lex King. And Then There Was Her have been programmed in a lot of festivals with, my short film, Miss Honey, the Catsuit. So can you tell me from your, thank you.
So can you tell me from your vantage point, from your perspective, a bit about that project and how, And Then There Was Her came to be.
Nyala Moon: So, And Then There Was Her kind of having kind of funny. Me and Lex were like, kekeing. Brandon, I think you were there maybe. But we were just like kiking about like a project and, then like, you know, I was just like, I wasn't as serious, but Lex was very serious.
And then there was a moment to like win money and Lex pitched the project and we got the coin to make the project. And Lex really spearheaded that project and,
Brandon Nick: Shout out to Lex.
Nyala Moon: Yeah, that's how shout out to Lex. That's kind of how it happened.
Brandon Nick: And what I want to add into the conversation, filling in some gaps that you had to like further illustrate how beautiful community shows up and just the dominoes of how we got to And Then There Was Her. Was what you were saying earlier about like there was an opportunity to win some prize to, win some coin. So we were all at the first Black queer Creative Summit hosted by, DaShawn Usher through GLAAD.
And Sidra Smith, who was there, was very inspired by the space that DaShawn had, cultivated for Black queer folks from across the world to just show up in hold space and be in community with one another, one another. And so by the end of the event, there was a semi impromptu pitch competition where like folks would write down the, their name and put it into a hat or something like that. And then they would just pull out a few names and folks would pitch, and then there would be like a first, second, and third place.
I think it was originally supposed to be like a first place winner. I'm more like only one winner, but like, you know, community and of the other organizers who were there. Were so, compelled that, folks had, I mean, you know, on the back end it actually could have gave, you know, a scheme. But all the same, you know, they ended, up being like, several winners where originally it was supposed to be like one person won $5,000 or like something like that. I think, up to three people won.
Lex, was one of the three winners, and I just remember how hyped we were at Lex one. and you know, so, you know, several steps and six degrees or whatever later, and then There Was Her had happened.
Nyala Moon: It was like one of the first times I had co-directed since grad school. And, you know, co-directing is an interesting process, especially if it's like, you know, like me and Lex have very different styles in terms of filmmaking. Y'Know in terms of a cinematic visual language. You know, we were very different where like, I'm more like comedic, you know, I mean, I do I tend to give you a little romance every once in a while, but it's a little heartbreak.
And Lex is more like, you know, sensual, romantic, sexy type of filmmaker. Which, yeah, which is like, makes this a little bit different. So that process of like working together and then me actually working with like people who were not, like my crew, like people had worked with before, was kind of a little different for me.
But yeah, the project was, it was done and it turned out really well and a lot of people really resonated with it, which I really appreciated. 'Cause it, the story was about like a masc lesbian and a trans woman, like, you know, two people from those communities, like falling in love and like having a romance, which we kind of don't see.
And also there's like a lot of tension, you know, there's infighting. So that was really special to me to show that kind of moment because I, don't think we see that type of representation, you know, and we don't see those stories again with like Black people. So that was really important. And I think that was the success of in there was her. Which I'm really, proud of.
But girl, I remember making the project. I was tired. 'cause I came, like, I, flew back to New York. I mean, I flew back to, I was in New York, then I flew back to la then I had to come do it and I had to come, you know, co-direct the project.
And originally I was supposed to act in it too, but I was just like, listen. I don't know my lines. I didn't know my lines and I was too tired.
Brandon Nick: But wait, you, I mean you, but you were in it, so like, were you supposed to be a different role or?
Nyala Moon: I was supposed to be the lead and so I wasn't, feeling my, I wasn't feeling my 'uss. I wasn't feeling the 'uss. So I was just like, look, I have a friend who is a beautiful, excellent actress and you know, she can step in. And she did it. Which was great for me because. You know, it's a lot of work to direct and act in a scene, and especially if you're jet lagged, especially if you're tired, especially if you don't feel pretty like it's no shade.
I feel like I had bags under my eyes the whole time, and luckily, you know, like when I see the movie, I see it. No one sees it, but that's just me. You know? That's me. I gotta talk to my therapist about it.
Brandon Nick: Even with, and then there was her, I feel like you might be most known for the work that you've done on your own.
And I remember when we met. By that point, you were already hitting, you had already hit the ground running with How Not To Date While Trans, and then of course over our friendship you also had Dilating for Maximum Results. What I love a lot about your work is that it is very comedic.
And you were talking about you don't really do too much romance. But I actually think, I mean, between the, Three films, and we'll get to the third one later. but between the three films that you are spearheading, that you've spearheaded, there is romance involved. But I do think the romance is really used as like maybe a comedic tool, which is to say, what I love about your work, Nyala, is that you exist at this intersection of like education and entertainment and comedy.
Like, I think you do a beautiful job. Of like, holding space for your community and like really centering and anchoring the work in like your community first but also making the work in a way where like somebody like me who is like, you know, is in the community can still feel like, oh, I'm actually learning something. Or somebody who is not even a part of the, you know, the Skittles coalition can be like, oh, this is, you know, I have, I, now have a rather authentic window into the experiences of trans folks.
I think both of your shorts do really great work of highlighting very specific, very, targeted and niche aspects of, like the, you know, the Black trans experience.
I guess my question in that is like, how did you come to formulate your artistic and creative language? Like how did you arrive at this intersection of like education and comedy?
Nyala Moon: I think the education component came in because like most of the girls, you know, like I worked in the nonprofit world and we were doing a lot of education and I did a lot of like gender sensitivity trainings with people. And I think just through doing gender sensitivity training, it like allowed, and I think I'm naturally a funny person.
Like I naturally like to ki and be a little mixy. So like just doing gender sensitivity trainings with people who are not like a part of the community, I approached it with being a little mixy and messy. So I think that kind of like teed me up to it.
I didn't really understand that. I was like, good at comedy or a comedian per se, like, or a comedic filmmaker until film school. Because I had made products before film school and they were definitely more, you know, melodramatic, no shade.
So. I went to film school 'cause I was like, I need to learn like more about filmmaking proper, you know, versus like what I had like self-taught. And I, you know, I was making you know, dramas and my teacher gave me a prompt to do a comedy when he had complimented the assignment. And he was like, oh, you should like put this in a film festival. This is pretty good. And I was like, what? And then I was just like, wait, maybe I'm good at comedy.
And then that kind of like that experience of like, you know, being like a funny person and then like doing the, comedy assignment and then having the background in health education. I think it formed my filmmaking voice in terms of like being educational but being comedic.
And I also think it's just like, you know, I think people, I always like to give people the benefit of the doubt because I also know that not a lot of people know trans people. You know, like even within our community. You know, like. There's stuff that people don't know about the trans experience, you know?
'Cause there's different enclaves of the, you know, the "lagetibiqua" as TS Madison says. The "lagetibiqua" people. The "lagetibiqua" people. You know, we're in different, we're in different enclaves, you know? Yeah. We have different little, you know, we have different little tribes. So, I always like to lead with education 'cause I just generally feel like people don't know.
And, I think because of that lack of knowing and because of, you know, like opinion, like misconceptions that leads people to have their opinions. But when you really think about it, people just really don't know. Like people don't really know that much about the dolls or like, you know, our experiences.
So like that's always kind of the lens of my filmmaking. Even though, you know, I have gotten critiques about, you know. I've been told, you know, like I'm, being a little too educational in my work, but I'm always just like, but a lot of people don't know, you know, so you have to educate the dolls. Not the dolls do, we know.
But you have to educate the other people.
Brandon Nick: Right? And I think because you do the education through like this Trojan horse of here's a gag, or like, you know, here's a stunt, and like, here's a haha. Even like the physical comedy of it all. 'Cause now I'm thinking about, you know, with Dilating. I didn't know that like dilating was even like, you know, something that needed to happen, which is to say like, you know, the physical gag of like putting the orange like dilator, the orange, you know, the orange non dick stick up your hoo-ha and then they're like, you know, flying off, like, you know, like the way that you entertain and educate us through the lens of comedy, is really helpful. 'Cause I think it does create a level of understanding and empathy while not, feeling so overhanded or like heavy handed, which I think is, which I think is great.
Nyala Moon: Okay. I will say though, there is an ed, like I, when I think of my work, I always think of an education component, but I also think of it as like an Easter egg component of it too, because there's Easter eggs in all of my work that only the dolls get and the Dolls understand.
So like, of course I love that people are getting educated by it, but I love when the Dolls see my film and they're just like, Miss Thing. And I'm like, yes, Miss Thing. They're like, Miss Thing, you know, Miss Thing.
I love that moment. So like, there is like a subtextual multilayer -ness to my work where like, you know, like it's like a, a cultural language that, other people who are not as educated in it are like getting the top layer of the education. But like the dolls are getting that, like, that like cinematic cultural language, the underlay of it. That I really appreciate of my work, too. 'cause I mean, of course I wanna like educate people, but I do wanna tell stories. So like the dolls can feel seen and you know, like have their experience, you know, see. Have their experience like solidified in a moment, you know? In a project in media.
Brandon Nick: Yeah. I'm jumping around a bit 'cause I do want to get back into the, How Not To Date and Dilating specifically, but you were just talking about something and it gave me a thought. Do you consider yourself a black trans filmmaker or do you consider yourself like a filmmaker who just happens to be Black and trans?
Nyala Moon: That's a messy question and I kind of love it. I kind of fucking love it. It's such a messy question and I love it so much because I feel like, you know, the general concept now, which a lot of people talk about, they're just like, oh, I'm a filmmaker who makes X, Y, and Z type of films. And yes, it's about my intersections, but I'm not just that. And I wholeheartedly push back against that because here's the thing.
We have to separate our craftsmanship from our, identities because they tell us to do that. But I personally, I am a Black trans filmmaker. Like no shade, Woody Allen is a Jewish, New York filmmaker. But, because, you know, he is not a quote unquote minority person that, that gets to be in the fullness of filmmaking. You know, those things don't have to fight each other, and he doesn't have to justify one or separate one with the other.
So I'm always just like, or even like, you know, any of the great directors, they're, who they are, their identity, their culture, their walk of life is in their work.
But they don't have to separate it how like Yeah. You know, black people do or minority or, anyone. So I'm always like, I always push back because I'm like, what do you mean? Like art comes from your experience. Of course I'm a black trans filmmaker. That doesn't dilute the work. Yeah. That doesn't, me being a filmmaker and me being a Black trans woman.
So me personally, I hate when people are just like, I'm a filmmaker who, yes, I make this work about my... I'm like, why? We gotta do that? Why we gotta do that? And it's
Brandon Nick: No. Yeah. And I love that you arrived at that answer. 'cause like, I love that you arrived at that answer because I also consider myself like a Black queer filmmaker.
Like I lead with the fact that I am a Black faggot. Like the work that I do is rooted in Black queerness. I am, while I am a filmmaker who just happens to be Black and happens to be queer, like the work that Brandon does is really like, even outside of the film space, right? It's like even this podcast, the work that I do is really anchored and oriented in like the Black Skittle Coalition first.
And, like I understand it 'cause, you know, sometimes folks don't want to be pigeonholed, especially for folks who have like dreams and aspirations of like being in like, you know, the industry proper. It's like, you know, I don't want to just be a Black filmmaker 'cause I don't want to just, I don't want to be like relegated to like a Tubi or a or, you know, like a BET or you know, any like AllBlk or any of these other like very niche, platforms. I want to be able to do all the things.
And I also think there's a world where like, you know, you Nyala as a Black trans filmmaker or like Brandon as a Black queer filmmaker. I do think there, you know, there is worlds and opportunities for us to like, still do other, like, to still make films outside of it, like our genre and our niche.
Like we just intentionally choose to pour into our community. And I'm also of the belief, hopefully this doesn't open a can of worms, but I'm also of the belief that like, you know, within reason and good intention, folks can make films outside of their identity, right? Which is to say, us as black Queer folks, we can make stories about like, you know, non, non-queer, cis, you know, het people.
Nyala Moon: Well, you know, I push back against that too. I, okay, I hear what you're saying, but also like, respectfully disagree because,
Brandon Nick: Okay.
Nyala Moon: When we no shade, when we talk about like pushing out of the community, we instantly talk about telling films about white cis people.
Brandon Nick: Tea.
Nyala Moon: No shade. It's like when we talk about pushing out, expanding out, we talk about. We, it instantly goes to what the default is. You know, that is just totally what it is. And I like, I mainly disagree with that. Like white filmmakers, like, we may call them white filmmakers, but they're just called filmmakers, you know, like romantic comedies about cishet, people are just called romantic comedies, you know, about, you know, they're just romantic comedies and we automatically assume that they're gonna have a cis hat lead because that is the default.
And so like, I don't know, I just feel like. And maybe how I approach it and what got me into filmmaking is I wanna, imagine worlds where it is, everything is the default. You know? Like you can come into this project or you can bring yourself into this project and that is automatically the default versus it-- and I know we're in this like anti woke apocalypse, which I fucking hate and I hate, that they tip, tip, the word woke. That pisses me off because like
Brandon Nick: tea and perverted it.
Nyala Moon: I perverted it baby. They're cancerous. No shade. They can be, 'cause like they would take stuff and I'm like, woke was such a, like, it was such a like a us thing.
An empowering thing. Yeah. And now it's just like so perverted in, the media, which annoys me. It like, it's like chalk, you know? When people are just like woke and I'm just like, it just annoys me. But I digress from that conversation. I can talk about language and you know, the taking our language and perverting it
But I, so I always push back about that. 'cause I'm like, we should imagine worlds where, you know, we're in that world and that's the default and that's what we bring to us. Because I don't know, and maybe I'm not right about this completely, I feel right about it, but I'm like, when we talk about like, doing other stuff, it's instantly like, oh, so I'm, shooting, I'm gonna make a project about a white person. You know, who is heterosexual, who is doing, you know the thing.
Brandon Nick: And thank you actually for pushing back because I did go straight to the default. I guess I should have been a bit more specific. 'Cause when I was saying like, you know, with good intention, and, you know, doing your due diligence, like, I feel like, Brandon could like, and I don't know that I would in the way that I'm framing it now, but I feel like Brandon could actually tell a story about like a doll or like a cis queer woman.
And like so and so. That's what I mean. Like I don't, I'm not like, oh yeah, no, you know, I'm not like, put, I don't think I am put in the box of only being able to tell stories about like butch queens and faggots.
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Mind you, I'm actually just remembering, 'cause I know we were talking about, we, our worlds converge because of the EMEI. but I'm actually realizing because of knowing that we were in EMEI, I actually met you first at NewFest, like I think before we'd even had the first EMEI, cohort, like Kiki, I remember coming to the, the screen that they, that NewFest had me and Ish were both there.
'Cause I met Ish there and I met you there.
Nyala Moon: Yes. Yeah.
Brandon Nick: And this, was also just like my first time getting into you and your work. Mind you, you were dressed down baby. That little, sheer marble dress moment was tea. I was like literally seeing, I was like, oh, Nyala's that girl. Like, and that was my thought.
I was like, oh bitch, I'm in good company. I'm also like, kind of navigating some level of imposter syndrome because here she is getting put on this massive ass screen and honestly no shade. You might have given me, I think that moment might've been my NewFest itch. Like I, I don't, 'cause I feel like I might've gone to New Fest before, or I knew, I heard of New Fest before, but I think like seeing, How Not To Date, 'cause you had, by that point, you, that screening, y'all had showed the work, like previous work. And you made Dilating with that money. So having seen How Not to Date on this big ass screen at Nighthawk in Brooklyn and like seeing you: this tall, gorgeous, slender femme queen. I was just like, oh, she's that girl. I need to talk to her. I need to be her friend.
Nyala Moon: Wait...
Brandon Nick: You just talking reminded me that is like when we actually first met and I think Laquann was also there. So yeah. Pause there. I'm getting hyped. 'cause now I'm getting hyped. 'cause I'm actually remembering the things now.
Nyala Moon: wait, I cut you off and give you your flowers for a second because
Brandon Nick: Sure.
Nyala Moon: Wait a minute, you're giving my flowers, but. do, You remember when you screened Miss Honey at EMEI? The ending, the end. And we were at the, the Director's Guild.
Brandon Nick: In LA
Nyala Moon: In LA.
Brandon Nick: Yes.
Nyala Moon: Bitch. I was crying when I finally saw Miss Honey. 'Cause it was just like a culmination of all of your hard work and it was so beautifully done. It was so, and you did everything yourself. It was just so beautifully done. It was so funny. It was so insightful.
But then when I saw you and Donja's project in NewFest. I was on the jury. Side note. Side note, I was on the jury, and babe, I fought for that film. I mean to tell Donja this.
Brandon Nick: I believe, I, believe
Nyala Moon: That film the way you, the film was so beautifully done.
Brandon Nick: Thank you.
Nyala Moon: It was so tender. It was amazing. Flowers. Flowers. Flowers, Brandon, no more imposter syndrome. You are that girl. You are a voice. You have such a, you know, a beautiful voice and you know, you're a important creative that we need, too. So no more imposter syndrome. We're like, contemporaries.
Brandon Nick: Thank you. No, I receive that. I received that. And I do have you to thank for like. Helping me get there. Again, I think like seeing your work on the screen and then like the friendship that we've cultivated.
But like, EMEI was very fab for me. I do think that was like the slingshot that like really got my independent career as a filmmaker, as a actual filmmaker, not somebody who was just like producing other people's work. I think that really was the kicking moment for me. And through that, like having met you, and really building like a strong relationship with you just really, I think got me to where I am right now.
Nyala Moon: I think it, I will add with EMEI, you know, we can move on to that question after, but one thing that EMEI highlighted to me was that there was so many, and this is important, there is so many like talented Black artists coming up now.
It was really great to know that we are in community with all of these talented filmmakers. That, was really beautiful. Even in the Black queer summit, it was so like, you know, I came to kiki. You know, I went to give a mixxy set. You know, it's no shade. If I'm not working, I wanna give a mixxy set. But just going through each of the panels and hearing the questions and seeing a lot of like the, filmmakers coming up who hadn't made a film or who were working on a project or who had just finished a project or you know, more established just to see the like community that was there and the hunger there was there, and the desire that was there. It was just really powerful.
I mean, I mean it's no shade, it's why Black people are lit, you know, because we know that, you know, despite the odds ever always being against us, we are still showing up. We're so innovating. We're still creating community. We're a part of something bigger.
Brandon Nick: Yes.
Nyala Moon: And more beautiful. And that's what EMEI, for me was personally.
Brandon Nick: No. Yeah. you ate that. And I do feel like in some ways that we, are in a black, legit "lagetibiqua", filmmaking renaissance. Absolutely. Which I think is, which, you know, which I think is beautiful.
Okay, so going back to going back, because baby, we keep diverging, we keep going high level, and I'm just like, I'm trying to talk to you about you. So, going back to you about you. You, I know you went to film school between, How Not Today and Dilating and I imagine the other film that again we will get to, am I right to assume that like the, for the most part, the people that you had as crew were like folks that you went to film school with?
Like you, you seem to have like a pretty tight knit like Nyala Moon camp. Am I right in that?
Nyala Moon: I mean, you are right in that no shade. But I do think, I don't know, I think that like filmmaking or like of, course you can make art without going to film school. I'm a firm believer in that.
When people always ask me if they need to go to film school, I'm like, listen, I need a classroom. 'Cause like I said, if there's no structure, I give a mixxy set. So I needed a classroom to like, you know, be like, Nyala, it's due on this day at this time. You know, read this book, watch this film. That I needed that for me personally to like level up as a filmmaker.
And through that process of just going, you know, to film school. Another plus of it is, I mean, and I actually hear that this is not true for all other film schools, you know, but like, just where I went to City College for grad school. Shout out to them. But, you know, like they're one of like the least funded film schools in the program. Probably the least funded film schools, you know, accredited film schools in the country, even though they're the oldest film school.
But, just working with them, you know, just going to film school there, you know, and pro by proxy of not having a lot of resources, we all like, just like became a crew working on each other's projects. And like, you know, making it happen. Like we were PAing, we were ADing, we were producing, we were just like, and these are just like every assignment. We were just like working with each other.
So that, like, that compression made us like kind of a strong crew to like work together, which I really am super thankful for. And you know, I love working with them because again, like just working together for two years, they understand me and understand my process and they're really supportive of me and my filmmaking shenanigans, you know? So yeah, I do have a crew and I'm super thankful to have that resource.
Brandon Nick: You are somebody who directs rights and stars in your own work, which I can only imagine is a heavy lift. But like how is it for you to do to like, to actually carry all of that like responsibility?
My, thought around like, you know, spearheading all of these big roles, is that like: one, it limits for me, in my mind it limits creative collaboration, but two, it is also just like, I mean, it is also a very, like a very pointed thing of like, this is like, this is really like the truest essence of the filmmaker's vision, right? For better or for worse.
So like, I guess I see all that to say, like, what is that, like, what is that conversation, that journey like for you to write, to produce, to, I imagine you probably do some editing as well to do all of the things?
Nyala Moon: It's hectic, it's chaotic. I mean, usually at first I'm kind of just like, oh my God. I, write something and I'm like, oh my God, I love it. I wanna be in it. and then it's just like, you know, it's the process of doing it.
I think what has been helpful for me, and I of course, like I will say this a hundred percent. I've worked on projects where like I've just like been an actor in, you know, or I worked in projects where I'm just directing and I do, and I am just like, oh my God, wait, what am I doing? This is so much easier.
You know, I'm like, oh, I can just focus on one thing. But I do think it is, maybe, you know, it like fulfills an artistic, you know, practical itch in me to be able to master both things and be able to like create that space.
And you know, I always just go back and, you know, they're gonna drag me for this, but I always just go back to like, the white boys do it. That's what I always go back to. I'm like, the white boys do it. And I'm just like, I feel like a lot of times, I'm like, of course, you know, I'm rational enough to be like, again, like something always does suffer.
But I do think in practice of doing it gets better over time. I will say that. But I always like to like push myself and be like, okay. You know, and not to reference Woodie Allen again, you know, I'm not a fan of Woodie Allen. No. At all. But, you know, he is, he's one of the prominent directors who do, who have done it successfully, you know, in terms of like the craft of making films.
So I do think that, like for me personally, you know, it definitely, it definitely is hard, but it is definitely thrilling. You know, it is like working out a muscle for me, you know, in terms of my artistic practice, you know, it's like the dare you know, for me. Like even with like, we How Not to Date, or actually even my thesis film, which was kind of a little more, you know, less comedic, that was kind of more easy. Then I did, you know, how not to date, which is me breaking the fourth wall, which was a little harder. And then Dilating, there was more of a physical comedy that I was like invoking. So each, each, level for me of filmmaking that I was doing was like me stretching myself as an artist in a different way.
Sometimes I'm like, I'm such a Gemini. 'cause I'm like, I don't wanna do it anymore. And then I'm like, oh no, I wanna do it again. I need to do it again.
Brandon Nick: And then you do it again.
Nyala Moon: And then you do it again. But I do think that when you know, like strengthen your cinematic language, it, it does help you frame it a little bit.
And, a lot of times what I've had to do is like, tell myself this is not me on screen when I'm editing too. You know, I'm like, this is not me. You know? I'm like, Ooh, she look ugly. And I'm like, that's not me, girl. That's the character.
So I do think it's that, and it's also letting go of certain things because when I do see myself on screen, like, actually, I hate to go to screenings. Please invite me to all my screenings, but know that I will inherently hate being there, and it's because I'm looking at myself and I'm like, bitch.
Why you do that?
Brandon Nick: You are creatively masochistic a lot? It sounds like.
Nyala Moon: I'm, a creative masochist, like Yeah, I am. I am. Because a lot of times, if you, like, people have seen me at screenings, like, and I'll be in the back like this, like I've been at festivals where people are just like, wait, that's you?
And I'm like, yeah. It's me. And they're like, oh my God, it's amazing. And I'm like, thank you. Or I, okay. I have this thing where if I'm at a film festival screening, I'll watch it when I hear the audience laugh, like I'll be like this in the background. I'll be like, oh. And then I hear them laugh and I'm like, okay, it's good. It's good. It's good. It's good. Right? It's good. But I'm, personally never the person, I never wanna sit in the reserve seating. I wanna be in the cut.
Brandon Nick: I peep that.
Nyala Moon: I like to be in the cut.
Brandon Nick: Meanwhile, I'm just like, baby, I wanna feel special. Gimme that reserve seat. And i'm bring in my homies.
Nyala Moon: Period. But not me. I'm like, my homies can sit there, but I wanna run out just in case I need to. So maybe I'm a little creatively masochistic. But I do love the process. But I do think that, you know, it is. It's tough and it, you know, you have, do have to have a stronger foundation in the cinematic language.
You know, you do have to have some release of it when you're on screen. And you also have to trust your crew too.
Brandon Nick: yeah, yeah.
Nyala Moon: Which is hard.
Brandon Nick: Do you, have a preference between, the three, between the writing, directing, acting? Not so much like which one are you best at, but like, do you have like of the creative journey which one excites you the most?
Nyala Moon: Originally, I did wanna be an actress. Like I took the now defunct, infamous L-G-B-T-Q acting class that, you know, we can Kiki about that later. I took that class that was like my foray into it. I think I do love directing more. Because, you know, at my heart of hearts, I am an indie filmmaker.
Like, I do write, but I think writing for me is to like, get the story on the paper to get to making it. So, I love the making of filmmaking, you know, I love the, set and like just creating projects. So like, I think maybe I'm more strongly a director than I am.
But they're dueling. You know, they're dueling because sometimes if I'm on a project where I'm not directing and I'm acting, I'm just like, oh, this is cute.
I also do think, I think the indie part of it is, and maybe this is maybe a blind side of me, I really do like to pay people. So I think once. More money comes involved, I will like get and release some of the control. I just like just being an independent filmmaker and going to film school, going to a really underfunded, a great program, but a really underfunded film program.
It's really hard for me to like, you know, like. I love to collaborate with people, but it's hard for me to like collaborate and know that they're not getting paid. You know? That's why like when I have other actors who work on my projects, you know, I like to be lickety split with them.
I like to be like, we're doing this, this, this, this, this, Let me get you out in eight hours, you know? Hopefully. Maybe 10. So, 'cause I'm like, I, you know, I'm paying you like at scale or even my crew, you know, I'm like, let me make sure you're paid me. Make sure you're fed well. Like, because I know like filmmaking, you know, for people who are not like the creative, you know, the person who's gonna benefit the most, you know, it can be hard.
It just like the joy of like working on a project. But I also wanna take care of people on my sets and who work on my projects. So I think once more money is involved, I will definitely expand more.
Brandon Nick: Do you find, because this is something that I've been experiencing, This, go around with home. The film that Donja and I did Miss Honey, the Catsuit did really good.
I don't remember how many festivals offhand I submitted to. But if I submitted to like, and also shout out to you, I, and I'm naming this publicly, you know, I like to get flowers. Shout out to you, because I remember I was like, all right, I did Miss Honey. You know, you and a few other friends, like Gene Powell was just like, oh, this is great. You should actually submit it to the festival circuit. I'm just like, alright, great. What do I do? Like who do I send to? I remember you actually sent me a spreadsheet of a shit ton of festivals and you had notes about like, this is the longest running queer festival on the West Coast. So I thank you for that.
Nyala Moon: You are welcome.
Brandon Nick: But if I submitted to like maybe 40 festivals, I think I got into like. 20 something. So like I, which is to say the acceptance rate was over 50%. And I was just like, oh, miss Honey was great. And in my head I'm like home, even though it is not like a film that I directed, I produced it and edited. I was like, home is such a strong, solid project. I believe in home so much, I just know what's going to eat and the like its reception and festival circuit had not been the same.
So I was navigating, maybe not imposter syndrome, but some level of just like, what the fuck is going on? Because for, even though they are very different projects, I do feel like home is a, production wise, is a stronger project, right?
So I'm just like, what's happening? And I'm navigating some level of maybe, I think the word I was looking for was doubt. I'm navigating some level of doubt. Which is, and which is to say, my question to you is going from, How Not to Date your first project and then, Dilating, was there any, pressure, or maybe not pressure, but was there any like, conversation in your head where you were like, comparing the success of one to the other?
Like did you want Dilating to like hit the same ways or you were you expecting Dilating to hit the same ways that how Not to Date had hit?
Nyala Moon: Well, I, feel like with, and this is just, oh my God, this is gonna be, this is a little messy. I'm gonna say it.
I feel like when When How Not to Date happened. Like there was my thesis film and then How Not to Date was like my, I think people call it like your first, your How Not to Date is technically my first film since post grad school. My first professional film, right?
Where I wasn't like a student filmmaker. And I feel like How Not to Date was wildly successful, but I think How Not to Date was a little slept on by a lot of people, right? Like, no shade it was. How Not to Date was slept on by a lot of people. And then it was just the succession of How Not to Date being like slept on some people and then people loving it and then, you know, then more people seeing it and then Dilating happened.
And then I think Dilating which was a beautiful film and I'm thankful for all of the accolades and awards I've got, but I think Dilating was that you know that retrospect moment again from people catching on to How Not to Date. 'Cause I released them like one was in 2022 and then the other one was in 23. So they were like in succession.
And so I think that like when, when it was a one-two punch, like you said.
When like Dilating came out, people were catching onto How Not to Date and they were just like gagging. They're like, oh, she's coming out. You know. Baby she's coming out. You know, she's a, you know, a crazy kung fu wolf bitch referencing, Boondocks.
So I think for me personally, I did have like those internal pressure of, that. But I also understood that like filmmaking is really, the festival circuit is really like, you know, there's a lot of other factors that go into what hits and what doesn't hit, and so I think that, you know, I feel like I, I try to tell myself not to be worried.
I'm always just like, girl, if it screens then you know, that's the prize. You know, if people get to see it, that's the prize. And I do think it's just like, it's, I think it's like the climate of that very year that affects it because I do. And I think also too, like home was so good. I really loved home. I gagged.
Brandon Nick: Thank you.
Nyala Moon: Home gagged me at the end. So yeah, there is definitely that pressure, but I always try to push away from that, like pressure, you know, of like feeling that way because it's like, it's, not constructive and it's not helpful. And I always think that like I feel like when we make projects, especially because, you know, like we're black queer filmmakers and you know, we're making projects on little money. We always like, we do need that project to hit no shade, no tea.
Brandon Nick: Yeah. Yes!
Nyala Moon: But I also think that we have to remember that we're gonna make another project. You know, there's, always another project, there's always another opportunity. And which I learned from the Queer Arts fellowship, shout out to them. They really got me to understand and they taught me that this is an artistic journey.
Which I'm always just like, you know, if it doesn't hit, if it doesn't do well, that's okay. 'Cause I'll have more work. And with Dilating and How Not to Date, maybe the next work will, bring them back to that work and they'll understand the bigger picture, which is kinda the thing. So I always tell filmmakers, you know, keep making projects, you know, like flood the gate with projects, you know, that you know, you are passionate about. Keep doing the work because it is, it's not like a sprint, it's a marathon.
Brandon Nick: Tea. And I will say, and, again, another moment to give you your flowers. 'Cause you talked about, doing the work in succession, the one-two punch. And I was like, I am still like following the Nyala Moon roadmap 'cause like I literally did Miss Honey and then came right out the following year with home. So it's like, girl, I, you are, blazing trails. You are a trailblazer.
But, speaking of, you know, you blazing trails, and me following you, you know, the roadmap that you've laid, you are what many consider a festival darling.
Like your two films have done all the stunts, all the shows, have gotten all the awards. Multiple time jury award-winning filmmaker, NewFest sweetheart, Outfest sweetheart. I don't think there's a festival that you've been in that hasn't loved you. For you, what does it mean to be like a festival darling and can you speak to me, I guess broadly about your, festival experience?
Nyala Moon: For me personally, it feels correct.
Brandon Nick: She said yes. Well, yes.
Nyala Moon: Well, yes. Like I remember one of my cousins, she was just like, oh, Nyala, you lit? And I was just like, am I lit?
Brandon Nick: Who me?
Nyala Moon: I was like, wait a minute, no, I'm a struggling filmmaker. And she's like, no girl, you're lit. And I was just like, oh, I guess I am kind of, but not really.
'Cause you know,
Brandon Nick: both things can be true.
Nyala Moon: Both things can be true. Both things aren't true. That's the reality.
I, you know, I really, and shout out to this one professor No shade. 'cause she, was like a... The Nyala moon, you know, the festival navigator who you see now. I learned it from, this professor that I had in grad school where she really honed in like, you know, going to your community and like, making projects and like putting to those communities first instead of like these bigger festivals that are marketplaces, you know?
And so like, firstly, I tend to like, I do tend to avoid them because I know that like, sometimes your indie project, you know, like at the bigger festivals, like it, like of course, you know, I'm not saying don't submit because you know, it will get in, but I also say like, submit more to your communities.
Don't hold out, you know, for the bigger festivals. Because for me personally, I feel like it's like. Somewhat of a trap because a lot of times, you know, like, you're waiting to hear from them and then you're missing a whole festival cycle.
A lot of my success has come from, you know, being in my community in the LGBT Quo people film festival circle. And I did get a lot of my success. Like I got reps from them, you know, I, I got more notoriety from them. So I think I owe a lot of my success to just following that path that my professor, you know, suggested and no shade it was smart. Shout out to her. Shout out to Nancy. Professor Nancy, shout out to you.
Brandon Nick: Shout out to Nancy.
Nyala Moon: Shout out to Nancy. But I, do love that I'm a festival darling. I love that I have created these relationships with like all of these like really important queer festivals. And I'm, I love that they have, received me and my work and, you know, care deeply about me and my work. That's amazing. But, I think at the end of the day, for me, like I, I love it.
You know, no shade, like NewFest, they were just like, "Nyala Moon, NewFest bestie." I love that. You know, it's a ki But I do also think that, you know, it's a, it's an important symbiotic relationship. You do have to create the work and for me to honor my part of it, you know, my part of that, I have to continue creating the work.
I think that is the beauty of like the community aspect of it. So like for me, I try like even though I do love those accolades I do try to focus on the work. It is a testament of like the work that I've put in within the last five years. So I think that is like the important part of it, piece of it is a testament to the work that I've put in.
And I think that what's also more important is that like the work that I've put in will be, you know, like, like you've said, Brandon, a pathway for other filmmaker, queer, Black filmmakers to like hopefully, you know, do better than me. You know, make something better than me, make something more riskier daring than me.
Like really, again, like add into this continuum of like Black queer filmmaking that I think we've been denied. You know, we've been gate kept out of. So I think that that's what's important about my work that I've done in the last five years, and like my journey as a filmmaker that someone is gonna come and they're gonna, you know, do better and they're gonna get more and they're gonna create more space.
Brandon Nick: Okay. So we've been foreshadowing quite a bit. I know between us good girlfriends, and I also know this because I am a part of this process with you. That you are working on your first feature film. Can you talk to me a bit about one, what was the decision like for you to transition from shorts into features? And then what is this feature about?
Nyala Moon: Yeah. So I think, I mean, I don't know if I was ready for the jump, but I just feel like in the moment I was just like, bitch, it's, time to make the jump. So for me personally, I was just like, you gotta poop or get off the pot, you know?
So I basically took a leap of faith and I decided to make a feature film. But I do think that, I do think that it is important, like for me artistically and as a filmmaker to make the transition into telling like long form stories. And I, for me, this, when we talk about indie filmmaking, this film, you know, making this film was indie, maybe the indiest of indie filmmaking.
You know, it was no, no shade, it was indie. 'Cause the budget was like 12k. Like I had 12k to like, make a feature, which yeah, is not a lot of money. And, I don't know.
Sometimes when I think about it I'm just like, ugh, I wanna make another short. But then I'm just like. There's such a beauty in like long form filmmaking, you know, having a feature film and there's like, like career wise, there's positions that, you know, like you get to, you know, when you make your first feature film, you know, it's like an elevation of your career in certain aspects. Certain aspects it isn't.
The film is called, I Used to Be a Woman, but I gave it All Up for Christ. And it's like, it's a comedy mockumentary. Where I play a de-trans person who is a part of a religious group of ex-LGBT people. And it was a really, fun process. The editing was like tough. Editing a feature is tough. It's a learning curve, you know, it's definitely a learning curve.
And even just writing the script was tough, you know, getting through that process and just getting to the point where I was just like, look, I don't know, but I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna go for it. And that's what I did. And now I kind of do have the feature itch where I'm just like, I wanna make another feature. You know? I wanna finish this one and I wanna move on to another one because, you know, I see what I did. I, know where I can improve on as a filmmaker and I wanna make the next one to show you that what I can improve on.
Brandon Nick: What did you think the process would be like for making a feature versus what was like, what actually has been the process?
Nyala Moon: The process was like, it was. It was really hard. No shade, I got gray hair from it. Like she grayed, you know, she grayed me.
Brandon Nick: Welcome to the club.
Nyala Moon: She grayed me down. So it was really hard. But then it was like, I mean, people say this, but I do think when you think of it like this, it does kind of make sense where you think of it like it being like, let's say six short films, you know? So I think that... I mean, even though that was still hard, but thinking of it like that did kind of ground me a little bit. But I do think that it was indeed really hard. And I think next time I'll probably give myself a little bit more time and you know, space to really do it.
Because I think what the feature, and this is the downside of thinking of it as like six small, short films, is that like, you know, you don't think of how labor intensive it is to actually shoot like six small or six short films in succession. Which is really hard. Like shooting one short film is really, really hard. So shooting like six is extremely hard. Especially when you think of it in the context of like, we have to keep going. You know? This project has to keep going and we have to keep making it.
Brandon Nick: So I have one more question to ask you and then we are going to play a game. This question is a question that practices and uses your imagination. When you hear the statement black queer and trans filmmaking is... what word comes to mind for you?
Nyala Moon: Exciting.
Brandon Nick: Ooh, okay, great. So now I want you to close your eyes and this is a sensory question. So you said black queer and trans film is exciting. If Black queer film is Black, queer and trans film is exciting, was a scene, what does that scene look like? Smell like, feel like, sound like? What do we see in this world? When you say black queer trans, black queer and trans film is exciting.
Nyala Moon: So, I think it's, I think it's colorful. And I think it's rich and it smells and maybe 'cause I love a New York City summer, I think it's like hot and I think it is a little loud.
But like a party, because a lot of people is there. I think it, it smells like food at a cookout. It feels cozy. It feels like the kind of the bittersweet feeling of like when summer's ending, you know? And it feels loving, but also, sacred and a little, I wanna say a little dangerous. It's a little dangerous.
Brandon Nick: Ooh, we love danger.
Nyala Moon: But like in the, like, in like a spy thriller way. Like, like, or like, dangerous of like discovering something new for the first time or, dangerous of never wanting something to end, you know, that kind of bittersweet feeling.
Brandon Nick: It is time for a 60-second pitch, a creative sprint designed to exercise your imagination.
Here's how it works. We've got four spin wheels with lead and supporting actors, movie genres and plot devices. I'm gonna spin the wheels and whatever fate hands us, that's your movie. You'll get 30 seconds to ideate, then 60 seconds to pitch your film idea out loud. Let's go.
Nyala Moon: Yes, let's do it. Let's do it.
Brandon Nick: Alright, awesome. So I'm going to spin the wheel and your results are, Ooh, this is tangy. You have Scarlett Johansson and Vivica A. Fox in an animated film about a Telfar bag full of money. And your 60 seconds begins now. Wait now.
Nyala Moon: Okay. So I, think we have to do what we need to do, right? We have to do, we have to lean onto, a spy animated film because we need to see Vivica back.
I feel like Vivica didn't get her what she needed in Kill Bill. I think we need her back. So let's do a animated spy film. Where Vivica Fox has to fight Scarlett Johansen's character over a caper about a Telfar bag where Vivica picks up a Telfar bag thinking it's hers, but really it's a TFL bag that has money that was planted for Scarlett Johansson to pick up.
So in the film, they're fighting it out until they realize that they have a greater mission and they have more in common. And Scarlett Johansson's character doesn't realize that Vivica Fox was an ex spy.
Brandon Nick: 10 seconds.
Nyala Moon: So, so then, so, so then Vivica has to join Scarlett and figure out the caper and figure out what's really happening.
Brandon Nick: Time!
No, but I am very much for, I am very much here for Vivica getting her licks back because
Nyala Moon: She need her licks back!
Okay. Because they
Brandon Nick: did her, I mean, she was actually fucking it up in kill Bill. But, you know, she, needed that round two.
Nyala Moon: She needed that round two.
Brandon Nick: Well thank you. This has been a very mixxy, troublesome, but beautiful experience. experie, thank you so much for spending some time with me. You, my friend in real life, but you also my film festival friend, love you down. Before we jump off, is there any, last words that you want to say or leave the viewers with.
Nyala Moon: If you are a filmmaker or an artist and you don't know if you wanna do it or if you have aspirations to do it, I say do it. You only have one life to live and you know, this timeline is crazy, so we need you.
Brandon Nick: Boots. We need more black corn, trans art in this world and this raggedy ass floating rock in the middle of nowhere.
Nyala Moon: Yes.
Brandon Nick: Thank you so much.
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