A Drag Queen Survived a Hate Crime. Then Made a Film About It | "After What Happened at the Library" (Kyle Casey Chu)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufzpxdEGBa0

DESCRIPTION

Filmmaker and drag artist Kyle Casey Chu joins host Brandon Nick to pull back the curtain on After What Happened at the Library, his autofictional short about surviving a viral hate crime and the raw, disorienting aftermath of public trauma. Kyle shares how he grant-funded the film, why he reluctantly stepped in as the lead, and what it means to reclaim your own story when the internet tries to write it for you. Plus, Kyle pitches a horror film about a broken vibrator, starring Hiroyuki Sanada and John Cho. Yes, really.

Film Festival Friends is a podcast about queer cinema, craft, and culture. Hosted by Brandon Nick.

ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Kyle Casey Chu (AKA Panda Dulce) is an author, filmmaker, and one of the founding queens of Drag Story Hour. She co-writes and produces films alongside her bestie, Roísín Isner.

She is an alum of Sundance's Trans Possibilities Intensive and Uprise Fellowship, Lambda Literary's Writer's Retreat for Emerging LGBTQ Voices, Film Fatales, SFFILM's FilmHouse residency and was named a 2025 Rainin Arts Fellow in Film. She served alongside Drag Story Hour as Grand Marshall of SF Pride 2023. 

Kyle's debut middle-grade novel, "The Queen Bees of Tybee County" (HarperCollins) was named a 2026 American Library Association Asian Pacific American Award in Literature Honor book. The companion novel, Juana Fanta Needs a Hero (HarperCollins), and Kyle's first picture book, What Kind of Queen (Abrams), will both hit shelves in 2026.

Follow Kyle on Instagram @pandadulce

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Transcript:

Kyle Casey Chu: She's just a perfect drag queen who was a teacher who just wanted to read a story and I'm like, but there's more, ? Like, I'm also messy. What about that? 

Brandon Nick: Hello. Thank you for tuning into another episode of Film Festival Friends. I'm your host, Brandon Nick. Today I'm chatting with filmmaker Kyle Casey Chu, about his auto fictional short film After What Happened at the Library, find out what happened after the library in this necessary conversation about art as advocacy. Starting right now.

I am here with my film festival friend Kyle Casey Chu, how are you today? 

Kyle Casey Chu: I'm well. It's good to see you, Brandon.

Brandon Nick: I'm likewise, 

Kyle Casey Chu: what? I don't know. A month, 

Brandon Nick: Right? Yeah. so much I imagine this happened since, our time at Out On Film, which is where we met. okay. So like I, I love game shows. One of my favorite game shows is, 25 Words or Less, 25 Words or Less, hosted by, Meredith Viera. So my challenge to you in this moment is for you to tell me about your film After What Happened at the Library in 25 words or less. 

Kyle Casey Chu: Is this a logline challenge? I'll try. Okay. Let me see. I hope those didn't count as three words.

My film is an auto fictional narrative about a drag queen who suffers a viral hate crime and the acute aftermath of public trauma.

Brandon Nick: Okay. I will count. Look, I'm gonna count afterwards, but that was great.

Before we get into the, like, the origin story, I'll start with the more like meats and potatoes, the, ones and the twos.

How'd you, how did you fund the film? How did you, cast and crew the film 

Kyle Casey Chu: From conception to execution, the incident that this is about happened in June, 2022. I started writing about it in July, 2022 to process it and. We ended up shooting in, oh my God, when did we shoot? Yeah. Fall 2024. And we wrapped in March of this year.

So it took three years. Yes, so that's the answer to that. And then in terms of funding, I have a background working in arts foundations and in grant writing. And so it was entirely grant funded for 80K. It didn't, it didn't all come from the same place. We were really lucky to get some big ones that helped move the needle.

But it started with a $10,000 Sundance grant that we got from one of the artist development programs we were in. Then we got another, like 5K from a smaller foundation for queer Asian American stories. Then another 5K from SF Film where I'm a resident, and then we got some huge ones from the California Arts Council for 10.

And one for 50, I believe, from San Francisco Arts Commission, which it has underwritten a lot of my films. And without them I wouldn't have been able to do film in the first place. So, oh, and, the last thing is. We were grateful to be connected to Skywalker Sound for Post, and they, based on the merit of the project, gave us, a huge discount on post-production services. So all of these things in concert helped make the film what it's. 

Brandon Nick: That is very amazing. I love, what I heard in that is the, you know, the how lasting relationships, new and lasting relationships can, you know, support a project along the way. 

Kyle Casey Chu: It's true. 

Brandon Nick: I, I have a quick, follow up question around the, how much of the timeline was intended for funding?

'Cause I know with funding films through grants and fellowships that there is, you know, a generally a, you know, a, waiting period and a hearing back period. How did that factor in for what y'all intended the shoot schedule to be? Like did y'all factor that in or just was it like, we're just gonna submit to all the things and see what, like, you know, what happens?

Kyle Casey Chu: That's a great question. So it's funny because we were initially going to shoot much earlier. We're planning to shoot in 2023, and the approach that we took was, we are going to set a date. We're shooting here no matter what. And you might have heard the adage before, like, people don't like to start a train moving, but they love to jump on a moving train.

Brandon Nick: Yeah.

Kyle Casey Chu: And so we were kind of in a situation where. You know, it was like that meme of the Spider-Man's pointing at each other, like, who's gonna get on this? And we had enough to get through most of production, like not enough funds to get through post-production. And so we were like, we're gonna do this. We're setting a date, let's go. And we were in a situation where we absolutely were not financially prepared necessarily, and it didn't work out. And then it was in that time period that because we had applied to so many opportunities, heard back from grants and fellowships and all that jazz that we ha we found the funds to finish it.

And so that's, that strategy doesn't work for everyone. And I can't believe I just admitted that, but ultimately what needed to happen happened. And so I learned a lesson and I'm definitely the type of person who would like to have everything squared away before we get into it, because the people I collaborate with, I've kind of come up with like doing music videos and just collaborating, just being friends. And so like I don't wanna fuck anyone over, obviously. And so I think what I've taken to my other projects is like making sure that we have enough to get through and then at least to finish production. And if we need to figure out posts later, so be it. But ideally we'll have that financing in place as well. 

Brandon Nick: I love that. And thank you for the transparency. Knowing that this is, a story, that is inspired from real life incidents. This is not only a film about, some fuckery that you experience, right, doing good in the world, and, you know, some people who cannot take paraphrasing now, some people who can't take, just felt the need to, you know, insert themselves.

And from that you decided to write a story as a, I think from what you said, as a level of catharsis and to heal. So not only did you write in it, not only did you write it, you also acted in it. And so, like I am curious, who did you need to become, in order to,

Kyle Casey Chu: Oh, that's a good,

Brandon Nick: In order to like fill this obligation of being the writer and the actor for essentially a trauma that happened to you?

Kyle Casey Chu: That is, a really good question and I've not had that question before, framed in this way, so that's really interesting. So we all know in indie film you do what you need to do to make it, to get it done. Be it wearing a lot of hats, doing crafty while you're directing. Like all this stuff we do what we need to do.

For me it felt like I had a hat on a hat on a hat, because I was a writer who had like, obviously like, a high level of creative authorship over the story itself. Because it's based on my true story, I wanted it to be accurate, which meant that I needed to have a healthy and communicative working relationship with my director, who I love and trust with my life, literally my life story.

And I needed to think about, the human underneath it all me and how I was going to experience the set, how I was gonna experience sharing it with the world on screen. And just, you know, not retraumatize myself in a way. And so I think initially what I wanted to do is I just wanted to write, I wanted to get a director.

Who I trusted have them cast it. They do all the things at the end. So mostly I was just a writer and like, you know, a strong creative voice in the project. 

Brandon Nick: Originally, you weren't planning to act in it? 

Kyle Casey Chu: I was not planning to act in act.

Brandon Nick: Okay.

Kyle Casey Chu: At all. And, for reasons that might be kind of obvious, which is like. So we ended up shooting at San Lorenzo Public Library where the actual incident occurred.

We were tasked with literally recreating the incident and so, coming from a social work background, I was like, this is playing with fire. I don't know how I'm going to react to this. What if I shut down? What if I go into fight- flight and suddenly this whole production just explodes in my face because I can't emotionally handle it?

And so what happened is we ended up auditioning all these actors. And I was sitting in on it and, every time I had an actor come in, I was just like, Ugh, they're so close, but it's not quite right. And like, I love how this actor does the comedy, but I don't know if they could do the depth of it. And my director was just like, Kyle, like... 

Brandon Nick: ... Girl.

Kyle Casey Chu: Like, girl! Like what do you think about trying it out? And like, you should do this. This is your story. This is all about, you know, that. And I didn't want to do it just because it happened to me. I wanted to make sure it was the right person for the project. And so I, I was like, I'll audition, but I don't wanna just have it.

And so I auditioned and there was consensus that I was the best option for it. And so that's how that came to be. but I guess zooming out, like this is a really meta story because it's not just about the fuckery, it's also about the aftermath of the fuckery that everyone seems to dismiss or leave out.

And it's also a story about storytelling. So it's about how, this public trauma happened, and then how afterwards everyone kind of seizes on it, like an opportunity. Everyone projects what, how they think you should respond to this onto you, and how journalists actively package you and your response and shape your narrative as you're in the middle of processing it yourself.

And so, as you can imagine, there are a lot of people who. Kind eyes kind of light up at the story and want to be a part of it, possibly for the wrong reasons. And so there are creatives who are like, oh, this is a viral story. Like, this is my big break. And they're kind of seeing it as like an opportunity to recreate the fuckery of the media and say like, this is a sensationalized thing.

This like, perfect drag queen did this thing. And I am up here trying to talk about that very process. And so it just became this whole like Russian doll situation where I had to gut check and really make sure I was fucking with the right people. And so I was lucky to happen upon Syra who was just like a genuine, caring, thoughtful person and, who whose ultimate priority in this project was to make sure that I, as a human being, like walked away from this feeling good.

And that even as the media kind of repackaged what I said for their own ends, sensationalized it to the point where when I saw myself on screen, I couldn't recognize myself or my story, that that was corrected.

And this was an act of correcting the record and finding a sense of justice and resolution for myself. 

Brandon Nick: That was beautiful. And thank you for sharing that. Did you end up leaving the film feeling, healed or held? Like how did you, what was that emotional, reaction to having done this work for you?

Kyle Casey Chu: I mean, I won't say that everything's hunky dory now, and like, I mean, it's not a dumb question, first of all. I think it was an important and it was an important exercise for me and there was an amount of catharsis that came with it because in trauma stuff it's like you revisit an incident over and over and over again.

It's like for somebody, a woman who experiences sexual assault or S.A., let's say, at a bar, a lot of them return to the bar. A lot of them try to sleep with people at the bar to regain a sense of control. Over a time where they felt they had none. Right? And so often people ask me like, why would you go back to the library? Why would you put yourself in this situation? Why would you like revisit this incident over and over again?

And I think what they're mis discounting is that I'm always revisiting this incident. Like I, I didn't have to go back into the role. Like, it happens all the time, like even like, you know, the proud boys who came in, they were like calling me a groomer, blah, blah, blah.

Like when I passed like a pet studio and it says like dog grooming. Like I think about it and I think about how they called me that, you know what I mean? Like it's a part of my life and fabric now, right? And so by putting myself in this situation, it's just like making it concrete and real and it just lets me revisit it in a way where instead of feeling alone and out of control, like I'm surrounded by friends who I trust. I'm surrounded by my ad and my producer who saw it unfold and reached out to see if I needed help. And like the people who like came and like gave me food when I didn't have executive functioning and couldn't order food like.

It let me revisit it safely in a way that I never would've been able to. Outside of production 

Brandon Nick: And what's, what is beautiful about that to me, especially about what you were saying is like this, level of victims of, any level of abuse, right? Wanting to, figure out how do they regain their power after feeling like they've lost it.

And just knowing that abuse can leave lasting scars. And so this intersection of knowing that I- you as a, as a artist, as a, human- am experiencing this and will probably, you know, be triggered by the scar for the rest of my life, cultivating like a new relationship, a new language with it via this vehicle that is this short film and all of the advocacy work that has followed.

So in what I, and I don't know if this is what you were necessarily saying, but like, I think what I received from, seeing how you show up, in the world as a human who has experienced this, is just like I am, reclaiming my power through, this shared, by actually leaning into the vulnerability of what I experienced and like the, advocacy work that is a ripple effect of this film will always remind me maybe that like I am not what I've been through. Even though, you know, this is still something very much like I might wear this scar metaphorically on my face. I am still very much, I'm leading. I am leading and I'm feeling fabulous with this scar. So like, I, think I, I'm saying all that to say the work that you did, in that short amount of time was very beautiful.

Like I remember, when I got back from Atlanta, I still had the virtual pass, so I showed my partner. He was the writer and director, and also acted in, the film that I was there for, home, that I produced. Yeah. So I was telling him about, you know, how the festival went that day, and I was just like, "oh my gosh. Like simply stunning was not just like hyperbolic like, hyperbolic, program title. It was act like every film in there, was fantastic" and I was, and I talked so much about your film that I was like, yeah, when I get back to New York, we have to watch it. And then we, did watch it and he was just like, wow.

There are a lot of elements that are really beautiful. Like, you know that moment when you're playing with the taser and you're just like. And then you're, gagged by like, I mean the, knee jerk reaction could actually just be the shock of it all. But just knowing that like, that character like that you are navigating some level of, violence in that like instant shock probably takes you somewhere.

And then like even in the beginning with the bottom song, I forgot how it goes, but like, Trump as a bottom or something like that, you know, there are a lot of elements, and there are a lot of elements that are really beautiful. Like, and, again, the way that you hold the, harm, the hurt and the humor I think is, a beautiful balance.

And me and my partner love the film, very much.

Kyle Casey Chu: Thank you.

Brandon Nick: I, lost my train of thought because, you know, the neuro has diverged a long time ago, but I think what is coming to me now, and what I'll ask is, because I brought up Out On Film, which is again, where we met for the Simply Stunning block. How was out on film for you and how in general is it to experience your film, on a big screen?

Kyle Casey Chu: It was really rewarding. My heart never fails to just like thud out of my chest because it literally feels like spilling my heart to you. And I don't, I'm not a crier and I'm just showing everyone like, just like really vulnerably, sobbing my eyes out after a very real experience. So it's always really nerve wracking, but it never fails to be rewarding afterwards.

And it's also been kind of, I don't know. It's been a little cathartic to, to just talk to people afterwards and see how they feel about it. Because as you know, in film you pour your heart, you pour your finances, you pour all your like blood, sweat, and tears into the story. And then sometimes you submit all these places and all you get is like, thank you so much for submitting, I'm so sorry you have no idea how it lands.

And so being with audiences in real time and seeing how they respond, just hearing about your partner and how they responded was, is always so rewarding. And I, think that's one of the things that I really liked about your film as well. I know that this podcast is about me, but, like, I like how you included the dinner scene.

I like how it's not just a black and white tale. Because I think often when we talk about these things, when we talk about, sex work, homelessness, hate crimes. It's so easy to fall into black and white statistics like you're a victim or you are a perpetrator, you are a number or you're not. And what I'm interested in is the gray area.

Like you said, like I'm interested in the humor of it all, that I'm interested in who the person is behind this before they were flattened into a symbol. 

Brandon Nick: Yeah. 

Kyle Casey Chu: I'm interested in this really like, complicated relationship that your protagonist had with their family member over dinner and how there was love enough to feed him, but not to stay.

Like that's the real shit. That's what the world is. And so Out On Film was so fun. Yeah. And it's always nice. I hate small talk, so it's always really nice to like get to know people and then you see the message and the story that they poured their entire life into. And it's like. You can't small talk after that.

Yeah. It's like I know what you're about now, and you just get to know people on such a deeper, more intimate level. 

Brandon Nick: Do you have a favorite festival moment or a fest favorite festival experience so far? 

Kyle Casey Chu: Honestly, this might be because I just got back from this festival yesterday, but Proof Film Festival has been so great and honestly, you should submit if home is a proof of concept for something bigger, you should submit.

So it's run by Amani Davis and Hannah Mason who are in La and it's a film. It's a film festival for and by filmmakers. And so they just give you a lot of avenues to meet people. They have Saturday sessions leading up to the festival to, "Hey, are you interested in getting a manager or agent like, come talk to this manager from you know, like whatever company." I told them that one of my comps for the feature is Everything Everywhere, All At Once. And they're like, okay. They set me up with somebody from the Daniels company Oh, who did everything everywhere. And I'm just like, that's insane. Yeah. so they just really have, they just are looking out for you.

It was, cool summer camp vibes throughout, which is how, you know, a festival's great. . and even at the award ceremony, they're like, oh, we just got word in that. There's this Spanish company who wants to invest up to a million dollars for a feature and they're gonna choose one of your films to do it.

So, just so you know, and I was just like, y'all are clearly hustling . And have our best interests at heart. It's not all hot air. You put your money where your mouth is. So, can't speak highly enough about that fest. 

Brandon Nick: So like speaking of, it, there's a world where like this could be a feature, yes? Is that what I'm getting this sense of?

Kyle Casey Chu: Yes. It's going to happen.

Brandon Nick: Manifesting.

Kyle Casey Chu: Yes, this train is going. 

Brandon Nick: Yeah. 

Kyle Casey Chu: So this is a proof of concept for a feature film. It's a surrealist dark comedy that combines, I May Destroy You by Michaela Cole with Everything Everywhere, all At Once. Oh yeah. Yeah. And so. It's kind of like processing public trauma through a drag queen's fucked up PTSD imagination.

And so there's a lot of like, cuts to like, her having power fantasies and like thinking of herself as a civil rights icon and like, you know, like marching through parades and just like ridiculous shit that brings the humor of the experience to it. , Because I feel like when this incident was covered, they took all of that out and they were just like, she's just a perfect drag queen who was a teacher who just wanted to read a story.

And I'm like, but there's more.

Brandon Nick: Right?

Kyle Casey Chu: Like, I'm also messy. Well, what about that, So, yeah, this corrects the record. 

Brandon Nick: No, that is great. And and I'm so glad you said that 'cause I wanted to ask you earlier, one thing I always say is there's, in filmmaking there's, three stories. There's like the story that you write, there's the story that you shoot, and then there's a story that you edit.

So I think this is taking me into two questions and, I'm speaking in drafts now, so this actually might be one question, but I think in my head it's two. Yeah. knowing that this was. inspired, based, inspired by shit that happened to you, unfortunately. And that you wrote this. Was there, moments that you moments that had actually happened that you intentionally left out of the film, was there something that was shot, that didn't ultimately shot or written, that didn't ultimately make it into the final product? 

Kyle Casey Chu: These are great questions and it's so like a filmmaker on film questions, which I love.

It's not like, so what inspired that?

Brandon Nick: Right? No.

Kyle Casey Chu: There's one specific thing that comes to mind. And in like the days after the incident, nobody from the sheriff's department in San Lorenzo reached out to me. They were quiet and I was like, what's going on with this incident? And so as I was feeling literally insane, I was calling them and being like, "Hey, like what's up?"

Like are you gonna get these people or are you just gonna like sit on your asses? And they ended up say, they ended up calling me and saying, Hey, so. We, are under the understanding that you like have a video out there, like a certain drag video or like where it's, called, oh my god, what was it called?

Where, so basically what it was is Natalie Portman does an SNL skit, where, you know, because she's such a goody two shoes, went to Harvard and all this stuff, it's like satire of her rapping and being like, fuck these kids. Like, suck my dick. And it's like, so just ridiculous. And so for a Star Wars themed drag show, I did that as Queen Amidala.

And I was like, oh, these kids can suck my dick. And I was like, obviously just like, it's ridiculous and it's satire and it's farce. 

Brandon Nick: So wait. Panda Dulce as Natalie Portman as or --

Kyle Casey Chu: Yes.

Brandon Nick: Okay. Great. 

Kyle Casey Chu: There are levels. And so yeah, they were, interrogating me about a number that I did during the pandemic that I uploaded online. Where I was Queen Amidala doing this like ridiculous rap. And their whole thing was like, yeah, 'cause it looks like, you know, the Proud Boys are like posting this and so like we like, do you have the original video? Like we want to get to the original video. And I was like, why does it feel like you're investigating me, right now?

Like why are you focused on my drag that's on the internet that like is clearly farce, but you somehow can't like, this isn't intelligible to you, like you just don't know satire at all.

Brandon Nick: Right.

Kyle Casey Chu: And they legit thought that I was sincere about like kids sucking my dick. And I'm just like, no, this is drag.

Like, it's like this is supposed to be ridiculous. Yeah. And insane. And. So I was like, I don't have the original file. I'm like, can I trust you? Like, are you, is your focus in the right place? Like these people stormed into a library, they violated civil code by annoying and molesting children, is what it's called. And here you are like looking at my drag videos, like obviously your focus is not in the right place.

And so there was a scene in which I got that call. And a sheriff is like, yeah, so it looks like you have this video up. And I'm just like, what the fuck? But we received feedback early on that it didn't make sense. And the reason it didn't make sense is because it literally doesn't make sense, why did we do it.

And so we were just like, it's so ridiculous that everyone even listening to this project, like doesn't get why. And so we had to cut that out naturally. Yeah. And so that's the part where. I, yeah. Anyways, it's just a call that I received.

Brandon Nick: Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle Casey Chu: But I'm glad we cut it out. But I'm also glad that you asked about it. 

Brandon Nick: As you were saying that, because I watched it, naturally, I rewatched it this morning. So it is somewhat fresher on my mind, but I'm like, it sounds like we didn't, we don't need that. Because the opening scene about, again, the Trump being a bottom in some ways That feels like. It is serving the same agenda of like, 

Kyle Casey Chu: Yes, you're right. Yeah.

Brandon Nick: What, could I, as this character, right what could I have done in my past that has nothing to do with the task at hand right now?

What could I have done that would've given them any type of fire or ammunition, to call me like, you know, a blasphemous sinner who was going to burn in the, like first pit of hell or some crap like that. So like, as you were saying, I was like. Oh, I guess we actually don't need that because we, for me, we have the, like, this like comedic opening, of like,

"bottom, bottom." I mean, again, I don't remember the song, but all like, yeah. 

Kyle Casey Chu: Yeah. 

Brandon Nick: The bottom song. 

Kyle Casey Chu: He's like, I just remember the bottoms. 

Brandon Nick: Oh, and the other thing. and, this isn't me gassing but I, genuinely do just enjoy, praising good work. 'Cause I think what I was trying to say early when I lost my train of thought was, and this is I do believe something that you were speaking to.

What I also enjoy about the short is how it holds, both, I mean, I think in some ways it leans more into the negative aspect naturally, but like, I like how it holds, the social media commentary around like virality, in the short. Because like you, there's one moment when it's like you're scrolling and swiping and there's this heavy montage of like, pedo you're going to hell, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then like of course after the news story, there's also this like, you are so courageous. You are so brave. We love you. And it's just like, 

Kyle Casey Chu: Yes, I'm so glad you saw that. 

Brandon Nick: And, for me it is just like knowing that this is also, again, inspired off of you. Like I'm imagining one, like just as queer folks, I know how annoying it can be to be told that we are brave. So just like, girl, please, I'm literally just fucking breathing. My breathing shouldn't be bravery, but also just like in some ways. How even well-intentioned the positive, the, like, you know, the love from social media that we've received, in real time does little for us. Because I am still laying in bed fetal position 11 o'clock in the morning. Still feeling all of what has happened. Like the weight of these, the weight of the negativity that is received online is so much more palpable Yeah. Than any like, love. And I'm, speaking for me 'cause I don't know if this is like your personal case.

But I think, naming that in this moment, that had also stuck out to me. So I just wanted to like, again, hold space for that. 'Cause I, truly do believe that your film is fantastic. And I'm also like, this isn't even the end.

Kyle Casey Chu: Thank you.

Brandon Nick: But I'm also excited to see like, what happens with the feature.

Kyle Casey Chu: Aww yeah.

Brandon Nick: No. Yeah. 'Cause I mean, again, I love it. I think it's been one of my favorite films that I've seen, this year. 

Kyle Casey Chu: Oh my God, thank you.

Brandon Nick: It, there were so many moments like. And, this is, so like whatever, but like, so Kiki, but like the moment when like you're applying makeup, I think there's also something very beautiful in that. Just like, metaphorically or energetically just like the, conversation of like, we activate as we're putting ours, we're as we're putting ourselves on.

And you know, like that could be like giving myself a shape up. It could be, you know, putting makeup on. It could be just like putting on clothes and like that, gaudy, maybe not gaudy, but that the armor of accoutrement and like what that does for the spirit. So like seeing that beautiful montage and the course, maybe not of course. For folks who like know me, they know one of my favorite movies is, Too Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar.

Kyle Casey Chu: Yeah! 

Brandon Nick: So like literally as you are grabbing, I'm guessing like that big whatever, and like you don't do it the same way, but like the second, like the powder is hitting your face, I instantly go to the opening montage of where is the body? And then that cut, and then that cuts into I'm just sitting here waiting for this reporter to come because everything is literally fucking more important than me.

What was your favorite moment to shoot? Or what was your favorite sequence to see in the film?

Kyle Casey Chu: Yeah. Oh my God, you had so many things, so many great things I wanted to respond to too, that I'll do after. But, no, honestly, this might sound really weird, but it was the scene of the mirror. Where I break down and I think the reason is I don't have acting training. And I was really nervous about that because I know it's

Brandon Nick: That scene specifically?

Kyle Casey Chu: A pivotal, yeah. 'Cause I was like, can I cry? Is this something I can do? And I honestly didn't know going into it. But I think it was, sounds so cheesy, but I think it was just, the environment that we'd cultivated on set where we were all friends, everyone knows the story, that I just felt safe enough to do it.

And it was okay also not to get too wooey, like I believe in astrology, but to an extent. But there was like a full moon that day and it was in my sign and it, and I read the thing and it was like, you are the most powerful, blah, blah, blah. Do you're the things you want to do in this night.

Brandon Nick: And wait, what is your sign?

Kyle Casey Chu: Cancer. 

Brandon Nick: Okay. Work. 

Kyle Casey Chu: Are you a Virgo? 

Brandon Nick: I'm a Capricorn. Close, Capricorn. 

Kyle Casey Chu: Okay. Yeah. I felt that Earth, I was just like, oh, they are on it. I love it. So anyways, the stars literally aligned in that way and I was just able to give it everything and I just felt so in it.

Like I wasn't pushing anything. I wasn't trying, it just came out and I think it's 'cause I finally had permission to do it. I don't cry a lot and because the task was literally to cry. I think it like, let, I finally let myself feel it and do it and, so it's very real what's happening on screen. 

Brandon Nick: Was that your first time crying since the incident had happened?

Kyle Casey Chu: It might be.

Brandon Nick: Wow.

Kyle Casey Chu: I think I only did it once and it was like, I remember the day it happened to, like some of the things that didn't make it into the short but will be in the future is, you know. While some of the extremists are there, or like, we pushed them outside, like the librarians came back into the back room and somebody was like eating a lot. Like, sorry, I eat a lot when I get nervous. And then another person was like, was just like, I just can't believe it happened. And then when she said that, I just burst into tears and then I, just sucked it back in. I was like, Ugh. And then like, it was just so jagged. . And I had no control over it.

And so even in that moment of like acute crisis, I just couldn't let myself feel it just 'cause whatever reason, but I was proud that I could do it then, and that it rang true because it was true and it felt really good. 

Brandon Nick: I think that's been the theme of this conversation today. It's just like, what a way to use art as like advocacy. Yeah, again, it's just, really, beautiful. 

Kyle Casey Chu: I'm really glad that you also noticed that in the media blitz that followed the incident, it wasn't all just transphobic hate and death threats. There were also, you know, words of care and like, "you're so brave. I love you so much," all this stuff, and I want to tread really carefully when I say this, but I appreciate it and I think people do appreciate it because they're expressions of love. They wanna support you. They're sending you tea crystals, all this stuff. That's amazing.

And at the same time, my writing partner has this theory about like human evolution, that we haven't evolved to appropriately, like comprehend celebrity. And so like in our caveman heads, it's like you see someone on screen and they're talking to you, or you see their experience and you suddenly feel like you're having a conversation.

Brandon Nick: That Parasocial relationship.

Kyle Casey Chu: They don't know who you are. Yeah, para sociality. Exactly. And, so like when they see you or when they have access to you, they, want to respond to what you've said to them. Right? And so it just feels like you're suddenly thrown into all of these conversations with so many people who you've never met before.

Brandon Nick: Yeah. 

Kyle Casey Chu: And they feel a connection to you, but you have no idea who the fuck they are. 

Brandon Nick: And they're doing that with some level of entitlement as well. 

Kyle Casey Chu: And some level of entitlement to your time, to your attention. And so it just can be so overwhelming to have that attention all at once and for people to reach out and even be like, you're so talented.

Like, we should collab da. And I'm like, I'm not thinking about that right now, girl. Like, I don't know what made you think that, but anyways, it's an interesting thing. 

Brandon Nick: Yes. it, it is. Was there a mistake that you made that wound up benefiting you or the project in the long run? 

Kyle Casey Chu: This is kind of like touchy, but I'm gonna say it anyways 'cause I haven't said it and I've been avoiding it.

But my writing partner and I got certain feedback on the script that was almost integrated and shot, but deep in my gut, there was just a feeling that like something was up and that this wasn't right. And we almost went through with shooting and,

Brandon Nick: Shooting their version?

Kyle Casey Chu: Mmhmmm. And it didn't happen. And I think afterwards what I felt was relief and I went back and we, my writing partner and I undid all of the changes and it felt like regaining parts of myself. And I think that's when I realized like, one gut feelings are real and you should listen to that all. Always. Never ignore that. And two, like in a story about storytelling, tell the story you want to tell always and there's some things you shouldn't you shouldn't sacrifice. 

Brandon Nick: I have a quick follow up, less about that, but in general, how does collaboration work for you or how did collaboration work for you for this project? Considering how, much of a personal, and creative stake you had in this. 'Cause like, again, this happened to you. You are the one of the writers, you are the lead actor.

And then just thinking about the story that you were just, that you were just sharing and then also just thinking about like, even the auditioning, right? And just like this per, I mean, and, I, this isn't what you were saying, but, you know, so I guess I'm pulling at strings in some way, get to a bigger story, but like, as folks are auditioning, it's like, hmmm this person doesn't feel like you know me in that moment. Like, I'm not feeling myself reflected in them.

What is that, what, was your relationship to collaboration like for such a personal project? 

Kyle Casey Chu: Yeah, so this is an interesting, this was an interesting situation because obviously I am, I guess, the auteur of the film because I'm acting and wrote in it, and it's based on my life.

And so typically, as we know, like if there's a writer director then, or if there's a writer and a director and they're separate, then the writer gives the director the script, and the director just kind of is able to do what they want. And it's just you know, carte blanche. But with this, I needed to find the right kind of collaborator, which meant that the director kind of had to listen to me and take that into consideration.

And even though they maybe considered the author of the film, like they have to balance that with my truth. And so I had to find people who were trusted in my community. I'm in San Francisco, there's like a small close knit indie film community here. Everyone knows each other, and so I leaned on producers in ADs who I trust with my life, Vee Godinez, Hillary Irene Pierce, who like I knew would find the right person for this as opposed to like the most flashy person or what have you. And so we found that and Syra and there were a lot of conversations beforehand about how this would work, but I really applaud Syra for having integrity enough to balance what I thought and take my opinion into consideration.

And so when there were executive decisions to cut things, to frame things differently, it always was a conversation. And that takes a tremendous amount of patience. And so we're just really fortunate to have a good relationship. If we didn't have that, it could have been a very different story.

And it could have been a very different outcome as well. But I think I'm a strong believer in that. The relationships you have behind the camera and what happens on set, translates on screen. And I say with like zero reservations that we had great relationships behind the scenes. 

Brandon Nick: Okay. The library is open. What are you currently reading? 

Kyle Casey Chu: Oh my God, I love this question.

Brandon Nick: Look, as I'm sitting behind a bunch of books that are actually my husband's.

Kyle Casey Chu: I know, I noticed that. I saw We Will Not Cancel this. And I was like, oh,

Brandon Nick: Love Adrienne Maree Brown.

Kyle Casey Chu: We could have some interesting conversations. So right now I'm reading Harron Walker's Aggregated Discontent. Harron Walker is somebody I went to school with. We did queer theory classes together. She's a fucking genius.

Before that-- so I'm a middle grade author as well and so middle grade is like ages eight through 12. 

Brandon Nick: Got it. Thank you. 

Kyle Casey Chu: And so I've been reading a lot of middle grade. I read El Nino by Pam Munoz. What else did I read? I want to read One of the Boys, which is about a football player who transitions and then the coach asks her to return to the football team. So that's next on my list. And what I love about these is it kind of feels like consuming Pixar movies. 

Brandon Nick: Okay. 

Kyle Casey Chu: It's like very accessible.

Like there's like a strong ethos to it and it doesn't feel like work. It just feels like you're kind of being like held and carried by a story. And I think especially now, a lot of people are seeking escapism in their art. And, this helps me do that, this, genre specifically like young adult and middle grade. So, yeah. 

Brandon Nick: Okay. So my final question before we get into the, hopefully fun exercise. This is a fill, it is a two part question. The first part is a fill in the blank. BIPOC queer film is? And it can just be like a word. So BIPOC queer film is?

Kyle Casey Chu: Oh, oh my God. Okay. One word. No wait, I got it. And it's kind of heady, but demonopolization. 

Brandon Nick: Okay. BIPOC queer film is demonopolization. I will, change this to demonopolized, or, I mean, it can be either one. Okay. So this is, so the second part of the question is a bit more sensory. So I want you to close your eyes. And if that word was a scene, what does that scene look like? What does it smell like? What does it taste like? What does it feel like? What does it sound like? It does it need to be all of those, but as you are imagining BIPOC queer film being demonopolized, What's like, what can you sense in this scene? What is speaking to you in this moment?

Kyle Casey Chu: Okay, so I'm gonna go a little like surrealist dramatic. 

Brandon Nick: Oh, I love this. 

Kyle Casey Chu: But it feels like there's a storm and thunder rolling in all around us and we're on a great plane. And there is one person in a fortress at the top of a tower with a mic, and the spotlight is shining on them, and it feels like all of us below are scrambling together, giving each other boosts and climbing the fortress to have access to the mic. 

Brandon Nick: Wow. That was actually powerful. Like, 

Kyle Casey Chu: Really? 

Brandon Nick: No, it was, I'm a very visual person. So as you were saying this, I saw the storm, I saw this field, I saw this castle. But, and I think again, because of your background and like my background, I instantly saw like this, and because of this anime that I'm watching called Gachiakuta, I saw this, this drag queen who has this like long, like lightning styled ponytail. and then when you started talking about, like, climbing to get to this mic, I was like, okay, well now it's no longer this drag queen because now it, it sounds like folks are vying for this microphone.

 And like we want to maybe dismantle. But that was actually no, but like that was very sensory and I appreciated that. 

It's time for a 60 Second pitch, a creative sprint designed to exercise your imagination. Here's how it works. We've got four spin wheels with lead and supporting actors, movie genres and plot devices.

I'm gonna spend the wheels and whatever fate hands us, that's your movie! You'll get 30 seconds to ideate, then 60 seconds to pitch your film idea out loud. Let's go. 

All right, so I'm gonna hit spin and it spins all of them at once. And your lead is going to be Hiroyuki Sanada and your, oh, I love this!

Your lead is Hiroyuki Sanada. Your supporting is John Cho, and this is a horror film about a broken vibrator. I am literally, oh, screamy,

Kyle Casey Chu: Oh my God, I couldn't have asked for a better combination. Okay. 

Brandon Nick: Okay. And your pitch begins now! 

Kyle Casey Chu: Okay, so Hiroyuki Sanada and John Cho are in a years long loving, however sexless marriage.

And though they love each other, high school sweethearts, that whole, all that jazz. The bedrot is killing them and is getting to the core of their relationship. And so they try a multitude of things. They try polyamory, they try putting their keys in a dish in a pineapple dish at a couple's house, to be swingers.

And finally they're like, you know what? Maybe it's just about the accoutrements. Maybe we should get different accessories. And so they finally get this really expensive vibrator that was recommended to Hiroyuki from someone in yoga.

Brandon Nick: 15 seconds.

Kyle Casey Chu: It has s many settings. Ugh. And, so, they start using it and then they feel like they're about to reach satisfaction when suddenly the vibrator breaks and John Cho just loses it and is like, I've had enough and start and becomes murderous and chases Hiroyuki throughout the house!

I have never been so, like, I was sweating, oh my Lord. 

Brandon Nick: At some point I feel like I'm just going to try and challenge myself in doing it. But yes, I,

Kyle Casey Chu: That was so fun.

Brandon Nick: I literally have, nothing else. You have been a doll. This has been such a great conversation. Anything that you want to leave, anything that you wanna say or anything that you wanna leave us with, before we depart?

Kyle Casey Chu: You are marvelous. Your film is marvelous. Thank you for doing this work. Thank you for supporting queer and BIPOC filmmakers. I can't wait to see what happens with this podcast, and I can't wait to see what happens with you and your blossoming career. And I hope to see you if I'm ever in New York. 

Brandon Nick: Yes. And I have family in Oakland, so like hopefully I'll be in the Bay Area. Oh yeah, that's great. Hopefully sometime in 2026. Thank you so much.